Ugly game of the day

[depaulfan]

OK, but at Toledo, that "bottoming out" has lasted 3 seasons since the coaching change, and the end it nowhere in sight. They are not just bottoming out, but a real embarrassment. Not comparable to our situation where the team underperformed, mostly due to unprecedented injury issues.

I don't follow Bradley basketball close enough to know if its a coaching problem, lack of depth, or if its just the injuries. But I'm sure missing Sam M...is killing the offense. Having a senior level guard in any level of the NCAA's is very significant.

I just never thought Bradley would of gotten last place in the Valley after losing those two guys. They looked like the much better team the other night when they played ISU.

From just reading this message board it seems as though you have a pretty divided fan base on whether or not your head coach should stay. (It seems as though its swaying towards one direction versus the other currently.) Sometimes change is needed and it could really spark a program and donations and it could get talent playing much better.

Every program is much different and as you noted Coach, coaching switches could really make things a whole lot worse, but it could make things that much better. You have to trust your University President, and AD to make that decision which will have a tremoundous impact on the University as a whole.

[Braves4Life]

Here we see fans pleading for the return of Stan Joplin-

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=424946

The situations are comparable. Joplin was fired mainly for not making the NCAA tournamnt. He was successful, but not quite successful enough for some people. Notice that even in that "Bring back Stan joplin" thread, there are some who call him mediocre.

I hope Bradley never settles for the mediocrity that Toledo's fickle fans are so obviously willing to accept..... again. Go for the gold , I say. If you fail, try try again. Sometimes it takes massive failure before you can truly succeed. I'd rather try and fail than never try at all.

[canadian]

Nice try.
It is not negative to suggest caution in replacing a hard working, honorable, loyal coach in Jim Les.
99% of the negativity here has been directed at Jim Les and the fans who support him, not the other way around. So please spare us the lecture.

This is a case that is relevant. The Toledo program has been destroyed by what has happened in these last 3 years, and there were many fans who did not want to see Joplin fired. Maybe Kowalczyk can build things back to a respectable level if he is given more time, but for now it is an embarrassment.

The case is not relevant Da Coach. They aren't even close to similar schools, with similar histories, or similar track records. Come on now.

Jim Les has been here 9 years. Not two like Joplin. Or one like Cross. Or one like Kowalczyk. Toledo doesn't have near the history, success or fan interest as Bradley.

I don't deny you have to proceed with caution when making a change. It's a big decision. I don't deny Jim Les is "hard working", "honorable" and "loyal". That's fine. So was Jim Molinari. He got fired. So was Joe Stowell. He got fired. I think any of the posters here would be "hard working", "honorable" and "loyal"...but that doesn't mean we should be coaching.

It's a business that is all about winning. You know that. This isn't a fly by night, off the cuff decision. It's five years in the making. Don't act like people are acting wild, compulsive and quickly here.

Jim Les has had plenty, plenty, plenty of time to win on a consistent level. IMO, he hasn't done that. I recognize changing coaches guarantees nothing. I am willing to take that risk.

[canadian]

Both sides need to stop freaking pointing at other schools and using those examples. Bradley is its own school, its own identity. It only matters whether it will end up working for us. It doesn't matter if Toledo made a coaching change and blew up, or if James Madison made a coaching change and it paid off. Everyone can come up with examples at other schools to prove their arguments. We know that. There's 20 billion schools in D-1.

I have a feeling an increasing number of fans here are starting to grow weary of both sides of the argument. And when both sides drive someone to more neutral ground, apathy sets in. And apathy is a very dangerous thing.

Great point TAS. That's all I've been trying to say. There have been times its worked, times it hasn't. Each case is unique in itself.

No one is questioning how hard Jim Les works. How good a person he is. How loyal he is. How we all wanted to see him succeed. This is not personal.

Bradley is Bradley. True fans support whatever decision the administration makes.

[Braves4Life]

..... I think any of the posters here would be "hard working", "honorable" and "loyal"...but that doesn't mean we should be coaching.

Ummm. Should have stopped while you were ahead canadian.

[shaunguth]

Let's just keep the status quo. Finish 4th or 5th.

But past results don't.....nevermind.....

[Da Coach]

..... I think any of the posters here would be "hard working", "honorable" and "loyal"...but that doesn't mean we should be coaching.

Apparently their savior coach they hired to replace Joplin, Gene Cross, wasn't "honorable" enough for Toledo.

[canadian]

Apparently their savior coach they hired to replace Joplin, Gene Cross, wasn't "honorable" enough for Toledo.

Well, we aren't Toledo and this is Bradleyfans.com not Toledofans.com

[shaunguth]

You have to trust your University President, and AD to make that decision which will have a tremoundous impact on the University as a whole.

[Da Coach]

Sorry you cannot see the obvious similarities. I only mentioned this one example because of the odd and embarrasing news they made last night, but there are many others. And it is highly relevant to bring up these similar situations. Toledo thought they could do better and fired a decent coach. Now they are far worse off, and prior to the coaching change last year, the fans would have gladly taken the old coach back.

Again, this is a highly relevant comparison. If you want more, I'll gladly list dozens of more cases where a coaching change did not work out nearly as well as admins and fans had hoped. Just look at where Providence is at now. It is proof that fans should be careful what they wish for.
Amazing how the fire-the-coach fans do not even like to hear these examples.

[canadian]

Sorry you cannot see the obvious similarities. I only mentioned this one example because of the odd and embarrasing news they made last night, but there are many others. And it is highly relevant to bring up these similar situations. Toledo thought they could do better and fired a decent coach. Now they are far worse off, and prior to the coaching change last year, the fans would have gladly taken the old coach back.

Again, this is a highly relevant comparison. If you want more, I'll gladly list dozens of more cases where a coaching change did not work out nearly as well as admins and fans had hoped. Just look at where Providence is at now. It is proof that fans should be careful what they wish for.
Amazing how the fire-the-coach fans do not even like to hear these examples.

Da Coach..come on. I thought we moved on. There ARE examples where firing the coach didn't work. I've admitted this. Just as there ARE examples where firing the coach did work.

Why is this a hard concept to grasp? Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I think we are all smart enough to understand this concept.

Some want it to happen and are willing to try something new, some don't want to happen and are cool with the status quo. God Bless America.

[Disturbed]

I can find cases where hiring a new coach is great and where it has failed. Each side of this argument can find some instance to support their cause. Doesn't make the argument any better either way.

[Da Coach]

Why is this a hard concept to grasp? Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I think we are all smart enough to understand this concept.

This part we agree on.
But we have posters citing cases where they say firing a coach lead to a great turnaround, and then they give us examples like Missouri State, which is still a work-in-progress at best. It is only fair to point out there are many cases that are not successful. That's all. Why are you and others right in this thread trying so hard to deny that this case is a relevant similarity to where we are now?

[Da Coach]

I can find cases where hiring a new coach is great and where it has failed. Each side of this argument can find some instance to support their cause. Doesn't make the argument any better either way.

I am always open to people posting examples that support their viewpoint.
I have trouble understanding why anyone opposes that.
Where are all the examples of midmajors firing their coach and going on to a significantly greater success, or making the NCAA? I am not saying there are not some examples, but they are fewer than some pro-coaching change people believe. For every success like Tim Jankovich at ISU (), there are a number of Jim Whitesells and Rick Majerus examples. In fact, every midmajor college in Illinois and dozens more in the midwest, have changed coach, some several times, since Jim Les was hired. Where are all the success stories?

[JMM28]

Why not look at past coaching changes at BU?

Stowell v. Versace - definite upgrade.
Versace v. Albeck - different circumstances, but definite downgrade.
Albeck v. Molinari - upgrade
Molinari v. Les - honestly about equal?

I can't really speak further back than Stowell.

Isn't the average coaching tenure somewhere in the 6-8 year range?