The talent thread

[Nacho]

From an ISU fan's perspective... I thought it was odd that at the end of the game situations, I saw on two or three separate occasions that when Les called a timeout- he was drawing up a play by himself while the team huddled by themselves and the assistant coaches were huddled by themselves. Ususally you would see ALL of the coaches huddled drawing something up and then the head coach go over and draw it up for the players. It kind of looked like JL pushed the assistants away and wanted to do it on his own. Any BU fans noticed this at all throughout the year? Just curious but it looked odd from an outsiders perspective...

[tornado]

in every single case I can find where a team loses two of their starters....there is virtually UNIVERSAL consensus that you have to give the coach a pass and can't be hard on the guy...

We hear this about Indiana, Northwestern, Kentucky, even DUKE for gosh sakes..and all of those are teams with other 4-star players waiting on the bench -- something no midmajor ever has...

[electricmayhem]

A talent level that is considered 4/5 with Taylor and Sam should not drop to 10th without them...they are good, but no way they're THAT good!

I disagree totally. First, nobody said their talent level was 10th. Whether it's 7th or 10th, what's the difference? If they have the 7th best talent and finish 10th, does it matter?

SM and TB brought more than points and rebounds. SM is a floor leader, and without that, BU was lost for some time. TB gave us an inside-outside presence, which almost every other team in the league has. We lost ours.

I think they are THAT good, and I'm willing to bet that even with losing AW and DD, we will be a much better team next year. With DSE, SM and TB, you have 2.5 legit scorers... and TB will add some rebounding to the inside games of WE and JP. I'm actually quite excited about next year!

[SaintLouBrave22]

No, you are wrong. We are all intelligent people here as someone keeps reminding us, so stop playing games. The purpose of the initial post was to find something more to blame on the coach. And you, in the 2nd post, made the implication the fault was on the coach, or do you seriously want to deny that? And the 3rd post specifically brought the coaching into the discussion, well before "the mod" ever made a post.
But please don't pretend that every game we lose is just another excuse for the fire-Jim Les fans to repeat their desires with multiple threads.

Actually I didn't once mention his name or state as much in my post so you sir are WRONG!


Whether you believe so or not, all of us are not out to get you or throw him under the bus just for the sake of doing so..


All I was curious about is if some don't believe we have a talent issue, then why they believe we are dead last...

As some really feel that minus Taylor and Sam we should be able to really win some games...

That was all...it was you and has consistently been you who is making this into an us v them issue...

If I wanted an us v them I would go to an ISU board!

Like most have stated, we just want to win...everyone is looking for the same result, but we have no real true idea how to get there so some of us have figured out, what the hey, this IS supposed to be a message board so let's throw out some ideas...

As per usual, you drop the anti Les moniker before anyone even name dropped...

At this point, I almost feel like you have a shortcut key with "anti Les" on it...


Enough!

We just want to win...and it's not happening and hasn't been for some time now...


That's it...nothing more, nothing LES....


Oops...

[SaintLouBrave22]

I disagree totally. First, nobody said their talent level was 10th. Whether it's 7th or 10th, what's the difference? If they have the 7th best talent and finish 10th, does it matter?

SM and TB brought more than points and rebounds. SM is a floor leader, and without that, BU was lost for some time. TB gave us an inside-outside presence, which almost every other team in the league has. We lost ours.

I think they are THAT good, and I'm willing to bet that even with losing AW and DD, we will be a much better team next year. With DSE, SM and TB, you have 2.5 legit scorers... and TB will add some rebounding to the inside games of WE and JP. I'm actually quite excited about next year!

I wish I could be but 5th place finishes and quarterfinal or semifinal exits in Arch Madness and CBI appearances don't exactly provide much excitement...


The bar needs to be raised for excellence!

[canadian]

in every single case I can find where a team loses two of their starters....there is virtually UNIVERSAL consensus that you have to give the coach a pass and can't be hard on the guy...

We hear this about Indiana, Northwestern, Kentucky, even DUKE for gosh sakes..and all of those are teams with other 4-star players waiting on the bench -- something no midmajor ever has...

Tornado--I think this is where there is confusion. This isn't about one season. This is about the culmination of nine years and the recent trend of the program. This year happens to be the worst record wise--but the five-year trend has been troubling.

I think people would be more likely to give this year a "pass" if the last few years were championship type seasons. They weren't. And as was mentioned BU was picked 5th with a whole compliment of players.

One more time--its not about THIS YEAR. Jim Les was under .500 against his peers before this season. This year only made it worse.

Can someone honestly look at the five year trend of the program and tell me the arrow is pointed up?

Sweet 16
NIT
CBI
CIT
Nothing
Last Place

All 4th place or worse finishes as well.

[Toyota12]

problem

From an ISU fan's perspective... I thought it was odd that at the end of the game situations, I saw on two or three separate occasions that when Les called a timeout- he was drawing up a play by himself while the team huddled by themselves and the assistant coaches were huddled by themselves. Ususally you would see ALL of the coaches huddled drawing something up and then the head coach go over and draw it up for the players. It kind of looked like JL pushed the assistants away and wanted to do it on his own. Any BU fans noticed this at all throughout the year? Just curious but it looked odd from an outsiders perspective...

I think this might have been JL's problem since he has been here, he does not listen to any of the coaches !!! I personally think he ran off 2 coaches with this way of coaching... Being a control freak and not listening to anyone"s suggestions was suicide...

[squirrelgotdead]

Can someone honestly look at the five year trend of the program and tell me the arrow is pointed up?

Sweet 16
NIT
CBI
CIT
Nothing
Last Place

All 4th place or worse finishes as well.

This is year 5 removed from the Sweet 16. Let's look at a couple other programs that broke out that year:

George Mason: All but a lock, actually built for another deep NCAA Tourney run. 19th in the Pomeroy ranking and winners of 14 straight. Likely to finish winning out or something like 17 of 18 going into the Dance.

Wichita State: Looking to return to the top of the MVC. While not a lock, probably the best MVC team and due to their size could do some damage in the NCAA.

A few years ago, we were lectured that the results would not be immediate from the Sweet 16 and that we should allow a five-year period to rebuild.

Ok, we've been patient.

[shaunguth]

I think this might have been JL's problem since he has been here, he does not listen to any of the coaches !!! I personally think he ran off 2 coaches with this way of coaching... Being a control freak and not listening to anyone"s suggestions was suicide...

Nonsense.....we've been told CB was responsible for the most successful Bradley season in many years.

[Da Coach]

I think this might have been JL's problem since he has been here, he does not listen to any of the coaches !!! I personally think he ran off 2 coaches with this way of coaching... Being a control freak and not listening to anyone"s suggestions was suicide...

I sat right behind the bench and what I saw was quite different. Jim was frequently discussing things with Kyle, Jim, and Willie, and all 3 of the assistant were talking to players during every time out.

[canadian]

I sat right behind the bench and what I saw was quite different. Jim was frequently discussing things with Kyle, Jim, and Willie, and all 3 of the assistant were talking to players during every time out.

I think Jim listens to his assistants. I do think his current crop isn't very strong and he has had a hard time gaining much consistency in that department. A lot of turnover doesn't help.

[BradleyJD]

Tornado--I think this is where there is confusion. This isn't about one season. This is about the culmination of nine years and the recent trend of the program. This year happens to be the worst record wise--but the five-year trend has been troubling.

I think people would be more likely to give this year a "pass" if the last few years were championship type seasons. They weren't. And as was mentioned BU was picked 5th with a whole compliment of players.

One more time--its not about THIS YEAR. Jim Les was under .500 against his peers before this season. This year only made it worse.

Can someone honestly look at the five year trend of the program and tell me the arrow is pointed up?

Sweet 16
NIT
CBI
CIT
Nothing
Last Place

All 4th place or worse finishes as well.

+1

[BU RICK]

Can someone honestly look at the five year trend of the program and tell me the arrow is pointed up?

Sweet 16
NIT
CBI
CIT
Nothing
Last Place

All 4th place or worse finishes as well.

That's definitely a downtrend that none of us are happy about. Good job of putting it in black & white. I think the trend will reverse next season, at least I hope so, being a long time Bradley fan I've learned to live with these kind of charts. Go Braves

[mrcoachdude]

Need I remind that the 1st person to bring up Jim Les was once again a Mod...

My point as per usual...the people who feel so slighted assume that's exactly where everyone is headed with a discussion are either paranoid or know that their points hold little water these days...but I digress...


Also, this whole guys out of position guarding other guys...hmm...I seem to recall teams with full compliments of players still playing 4's as 5's and 3's as 4's and so on...so that's a horrible argument to make...

Guys have been playing out of position for about 7 of 9 years...


The one thing that is well known...4 guard systems do not work...


A talent level that is considered 4/5 with Taylor and Sam should not drop to 10th without them...they are good, but no way they're THAT good!

Hey just a thought....the 1st and 2nd post in this thread were going in only one direction and every poster here knows it...I am thinking mulberry bush....cause we keep going around it....

[ER3]

in every single case I can find where a team loses two of their starters....there is virtually UNIVERSAL consensus that you have to give the coach a pass and can't be hard on the guy...

We hear this about Indiana, Northwestern, Kentucky, even DUKE for gosh sakes..and all of those are teams with other 4-star players waiting on the bench -- something no midmajor ever has...

Les had Maniscalco, Brown, and Warren last year and he managed an underwhelming 16-15 result with those 3 all conference caliber players. Does he get 'pass' for that season too? How many 'passes' does a guy get before it's finally time to turn the page?