Iowa high school boy defaults state tournament wrestling match because his opponent is a girl

[tornado]

I see.. canadian -- now you've imposed yet another rule that the boys have to justify -- they have to prove their religion when competing against the girls....

it's hypocrisy to say you want equality then ban the boys from doing exactly what it is you want the girls to be free to do...
but then we've seen massive evidence of this hypocrisy before......
remember the "potty parity"?? Women claim they want equality in bathroom facilities in public arenas...but then they really DON'T wont equality -- they want a special extra number of potties because they claim they are inherently different and NEED MORE potties than the men...
this is absurd to even use the word equality in this discussion...
boys & girls are different and the insane inability for some to NOT see it doesn't make the statement wrong

[BradleyJD]

so you're saying that boys have to look for other opportunities outside of school -- but girls don't have to do so -- they MUST be allowed to play on the boys' teams?

Yes, that is what I am saying.

I think most people can readily see that boys playing against girls would obviously have an unfair physical advantage, in most cases.

If you believe boys should be allowed to play on girls teams, then I can accept your opinion. It's okay to disagree.

I, personally, do not believe boys should be allowed on girls teams. That clearly would be unfair.

When a girl plays in a boys league she usually would do so at a huge disadvantage. Not a huge advantage as boys would have in a girls league.

[tornado]

I agree with everything you say...but I think what we have here are women's activists trying to jack the system --

they want it one way when it's boys playing on girls' teams, then they want it the other way when it's girls on boys' teams.

All I'd like to see are rules and laws that are consistent...
either boy & girls are different so laws can be passed as such...

or they are the same and laws should be passed as such....
but stop giving one side the opportunity to have it either way they want in every situation..

[canadian]

I see.. canadian -- now you've imposed yet another rule that the boys have to justify -- they have to prove their religion when competing against the girls....

it's hypocrisy to say you want equality then ban the boys from doing exactly what it is you want the girls to be free to do...
but then we've seen massive evidence of this hypocrisy before......
remember the "potty parity"?? Women claim they want equality in bathroom facilities in public arenas...but then they really DON'T wont equality -- they want a special extra number of potties because they claim they are inherently different and NEED MORE potties than the men...
this is absurd to even use the word equality in this discussion...
boys & girls are different and the insane inability for some to NOT see it doesn't make the statement wrong

Tornado--I didn't say anything about imposing a rule. It was honestly just a question I had. Nothing more, nothing less. I give the kid credit for doing what he felt was right, despite negative consequences.

I was honestly asking out of religious curiosity. What religion would have this kind of clause in it where competing in sports against a girl would be considered something against his faith.

The # of potties in public areas is your deal. I don't have a dog in that fight. I don't care how many potties women have as long as I can go when I need to

[tornado]

canadian -- I see lots of things people do in following their religion -- kissing beads, wearing headgear, braiding their beards, homeschooling their kids, refusing to play cards or go to dances, bowing to statues in a church, etc...
I doubt anyone can find a clause in their holy books that proves they HAVE to do those things, but they do and I respect those things as long as those actions don't clash with the rights of others.

[canadian]

canadian -- I see lots of things people do in following their religion -- kissing beads, wearing headgear, braiding their beards, homeschooling their kids, refusing to play cards or go to dances, bowing to statues in a church, etc...
I doubt anyone can find a clause in their holy books that proves they HAVE to do those things, but they do and I respect those things as long as those actions don't clash with the rights of others.

Good for them. I said I respected the kid. I just didn't know if there was a specific religion that talked about this. Honestly just curious.

I remember when Danny Granger didn't come out for the anthem for religious reasons there were people that ridiculed him. Same for Mahmoud Abdul Rauf back in his NBA days. I gave Danny and Mahmoud credit and this kid credit.

[tornado]

I wouldn't go so far as to equate a desire to treat women honorably with avoiding a simple act that would show patriotism but was somehow believed by DG to offend his beliefs....but I was never one who was critical of DG and agree his actions were OK...

[canadian]

I wouldn't go so far as to equate a desire to treat women honorably with avoiding a simple act that would show patriotism but was somehow believed by DG to offend his beliefs....but I was never one who was critical of DG and agree his actions were OK...

Understood. To me the situations are similar. If the kid wrestled he wouldn't have been "dishonoring" the girl. It is only "dishonorable" if she didn't want it to happen. She signed up for it and obviously agreed.

The Patriotism thing is another issue entirely. DG believed putting the flag before his God was against his religion. No harm in that. There are Muslim's and Jehovah's Witnesses who feel this way. Good for them.

[SFP]

I am not going to get into an argument about religion, but who are we to define what any religion says about this? If anyone believes it is immoral to wrestle a woman and bases it on their interpretation of their religion, then we should respect that, as long as it doesn't harm others or our society.

I agree!

I'm not going to even get into the other argument in this thread.

[Murph]

Rick Reilly

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6136707

"Does any wrong-headed decision suddenly become right when defended with religious conviction? In this age, don't we know better? If my God told me to poke the elderly with sharp sticks, would that make it morally acceptable to others?"

The last I saw Northrup, he was crying. After the default, he entered the consolation round, where he won his first match, then lost a heartbreaker in overtime, 3-2. He jogged past the scrum of reporters waiting to talk to Cassy, tears streaming down his face, unnoticed. He was done, with no chance to medal.

Neither he, nor his coaches, nor his dad, had any comment. He was reportedly on his way back home to Marion, Iowa, where his mom was about to deliver her eighth child.

For the kid's sake, I hope it's a boy.

[tornado]

If Joel Northrup lost in the consolation round, then you'd have to figure had he wrestled Cassy and won, he'd have probably lost shortly in the championship round anyway......



BTW -- in all of this virtually nobody is reporting what happened to Cassy in her very next match...nor the other girl who was wrestling in the state finals.....so anyone interested in how well they did??
Not real well........
Other than the forfeit win Cassy got, the total match record of the two girls was 0-4 with three of those matches ending quickly in pins.

After Cassy Herkelman was awarded a win over Northrup, her next match was against Indianola, IA's sophomore Matt Victor.
Cassy got beaten in the 112lb weight class, 5-1

She then fell to the Consolation bracket where she got pinned in 1:21 in her first consolation match. So Cassy ended 1-2 but her only win was the forfeit.

The only match in the tournament that ended faster was when the other girl in the state finals wrestled her first match...
In the Championship 1st round vs. Bettendorf freshman Logan Ryan pinned Megan Black in 52 seconds.
Black then got pinned in 3 minutes in her consolation bout and ended with a record of 0-2.

[Da Coach]

Rick Reilly

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6136707

"Does any wrong-headed decision suddenly become right when defended with religious conviction? In this age, don't we know better? If my God told me to poke the elderly with sharp sticks, would that make it morally acceptable to others?"

The last I saw Northrup, he was crying. After the default, he entered the consolation round, where he won his first match, then lost a heartbreaker in overtime, 3-2. He jogged past the scrum of reporters waiting to talk to Cassy, tears streaming down his face, unnoticed. He was done, with no chance to medal.

Neither he, nor his coaches, nor his dad, had any comment. He was reportedly on his way back home to Marion, Iowa, where his mom was about to deliver her eighth child.

For the kid's sake, I hope it's a boy.

Thanks for posting what Rick Reilly thinks about the kid's religion.

Before I go to church tomorrow, I think I better give St. Rick a call and ask him which of my religious beliefs he's OK with.