Strategic error?

[FortyTwo]

I guess I should have started this thread by saying how impressed I was with the team/coaching/execution/etc. because I really was. All I was asking about was the specific decision to foul at the end of the game, as that is not the move that most coaches/players are taught. I flipped over to the Iowa/Wisconsin game right after ours and the same situation occured and Iowa didn'f foul and the announcers there said that was the right move since it's a one possession game.

And Tulsa stated that Dodie made a shot at :38 so this didn't matter. I was talking about the shot he made at :46 when he cut it to 2 and we were guaranteed to get the ball back with 15 sec. Absolutely at :38 you have to foul.

Again, I thought the team played great, Coach Les had a great game and I am very encouraged in general. I just simply didn't understand why we would foul in that situation and wondered what others thought.

[Buesch N Chips]

Dodie didn't score until 39 seconds remained. We pretty much had to foul at that point. Therefore, this whole thread is moot.

I was thinking the same thing. In fact, I thought there were 38 seconds left.

[FortyTwo]

Tulsa and Buesch- Dodie made a layup at :46 to cut it to 2. We immediately fouled, which is what I'm debating. MSU made both free throws, and Dodie came down and scored again at :38 to cut it back to 2. At that point, yes we absolutely had to foul, but not the first time he scored at :46.

[Beninator]

We just lost a VERY close game to the league's first place team on the road! Puleaze! Give it a rest fellas! Just say "Good game Braves. Better luck next time."

This team has made some significant strides over the past few games and is now a team that most Valley teams would rather not play right now. Good job coaches and players!

Very much agree Braves4Life. If we look back a few games, there is noticeable improvement with the team. I have disagreed with JL on some things this season, but the overall improvement of the team is a result of the coaching staff. If we criticize JL on some things, then we also have to credit JL and the staff when improvements are made. jmho

Nice try on the gotcha game. But I fully expected there to be the "blame the coach" posts after this and almost every game that we lose. It neither surprises me or upsets me. In fact, if you have paid attention, I have also criticized the coaching moves in some past games. I just don't have the knee-jerk reflex to do it immediately after every loss.
The disparity is on the other side. How often to you see the anti-JL ever give the coach any credit for anything?

How about this-
Points in the paint-BRAD 46,MSU 14. Points off turnovers-BRAD 20,MSU 18.

How about crediting the coaching just a little for the game plan. How many expected Bradley could score 46 points in the paint?

46 points in the paint against one of the top teams in the MVC as well!

[bigdaddystuck]

As a coach, I handle it this way....deny the ball in, then play D until the half court line...then foul if they are going to get it over. With that much time left, that strategy could have worked.

I don't really see a problem in fouling right away. It was 1 and 1, if he misses the front end and we rebound then we have an oppurtunity to use a lot of clock to get the best shot possible. If we play D for the entire possession, best case we get the ball back still down with a lot less time. I don't think it really matters if we had lost by 1, 5, or 8....we lost. That play is not only reason we lost, one play never is.

[AZ BU Fan]

MM: SGD, not only is what you're saying not true, it is wrong and disrespectful for you to discuss JL in that way.

SGD: Wait, hold on here. Is this a Sports Forum? Is this a Sports Forum? If we can't talk straight in a Sports Forum, then where can we talk straight? We can't talk straight nowhere else. You know, this ain't nothin' but healthy conversation, that's all.





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[mrcoachdude]

So as you play out my scenario we lost by 5 instead of the actual 8 by fouling early. Not seeing how your post really lends itself to making a counter-argument. And I'm not a coach, but I;m fairly certain the general rule is you play good defense and hope for the best since it's a 1 possession game.

No you don't....you try to get a quick steal...if you do not get one quickly...you foul...

by your scenario...you may lose by 5 or 8 or ten....but you still lose...

You foul..they miss a free throw...you have a shot to tie...but in the end its you gotta make shots to win it...

[mrcoachdude]

Tulsa and Buesch- Dodie made a layup at :46 to cut it to 2. We immediately fouled, which is what I'm debating. MSU made both free throws, and Dodie came down and scored again at :38 to cut it back to 2. At that point, yes we absolutely had to foul, but not the first time he scored at :46.

I would rather had a three to get us within 1 instead of Dodie's two points...but still time was left...you just hope they miss a FT...

[SaintLouBrave22]

typical

ok - moving on and therefore this back-n-forth is over and done with

any more and it'll be considered a repetitive post (repetitive theme) and subject to deletion

Man wow....


Take a nap or walk away for a few hrs next time...


An opinion was given and right or wrong it was just that...

You don't have to agree with it, but having a tizzy about it is just uncalled for...


We played well and played the first place team better at their house than most have done all year...

We lost yeah but hey, we were already going to play Thu anyways so what's it matter?


Whether we fouled or not is really pointless anyways as three things really cost us this game:

-Turnovers down the stretch
-Missed front end of bonus with DSE down by 3
-Allowing Leonard to bury a wide open 3 when only down 1 possession late

Most of this happened within a :45 sec timeframe...


I would also blame poor officiating down the stretch, but that's not a cause for a loss when you lose by 8.

[houstontxbrave]

This the way I look at it:

If you foul and they score both free throws you are unable to score and win on one single basket.

If you foul in that situation then you pretty much are committed to fouling them on every possession from that point forward and depending on them missing free throws. So now you are in a trading basket for free throw situation.

I think in that situation if there is time to set up things you foul after the ball gets past half court after trying to trap in the backcourt, but foul hopefully you foul the right player.

If you dont foul you better get the stop and NOT foul after playing d for anywhere over 15 seconds.

I do not know what is right or wrong but I tend to think waiting and not fouling immediately and trying to force a turnover is best, but I think you do eventually foul.

[tornado]

Our kids played well and played hard....
MSU hit almost everything they threw up from long range and the refs weren't always friendly (like the guy who almost broke Jordan Prosser's back on the first shot of the game and was NOT called for a foul!)..

and yet instantly we pick apart some minute factor and lay blame on someone's lap....please...let's act like fans and enjoy your team's hard play - even in a loss.

[houstontxbrave]

Our kids played well and played hard....
MSU hit almost everything they threw up from long range and the refs weren't always friendly (like the guy who almost broke Jordan Prosser's back on the first shot of the game and was NOT called for a foul!)..

and yet instantly we pick apart some minute factor and lay blame on someone's lap....please...let's act like fans and enjoy your team's hard play - even in a loss.

Man it is a sports form and the stratagy of the game is being discussed no one is blaming the play for a lose or putting the blame on anyone just discussing the reasoning for a decision.

And btw it was not a minute factor. By fouling with that much time on the clock/shot clock it did effect the way the rest of the decisions would need to be approached in the last minute.

So what if people want to discuss the game or even one play? IF you dont like the way people are discussing the play then dont read the thread or better yet dont comment.

[FortyTwo]

Man it is a sports form and the stratagy of the game is being discussed no one is blaming the play for a lose or putting the blame on anyone just discussing the reasoning for a decision.

And btw it was not a minute factor. By fouling with that much time on the clock/shot clock it did effect the way the rest of the decisions would need to be approached in the last minute.

So what if people want to discuss the game or even one play? IF you dont like the way people are discussing the play then dont read the thread or better yet dont comment.

Thank You! All I wanted was to hear people's thoughts on the strategy behind the play and why or why not they agreed with it. The odds were against us either way, I just thought we had a better chance of pulling out the win by playing D and hoping for a miss.

I thought it might be possible to have this discussion without it turning into a pro/negative coaching thread, but apparently not.

[Buesch N Chips]

I thought it might be possible to have this discussion without it turning into a pro/negative coaching thread, but apparently not.

The chances of that happening ended after post #2.

[lefty]

This the way I look at it:

If you foul and they score both free throws you are unable to score and win on one single basket.

If you foul in that situation then you pretty much are committed to fouling them on every possession from that point forward and depending on them missing free throws. So now you are in a trading basket for free throw situation.

I think in that situation if there is time to set up things you foul after the ball gets past half court after trying to trap in the backcourt, but foul hopefully you foul the right player.

If you dont foul you better get the stop and NOT foul after playing d for anywhere over 15 seconds.

I do not know what is right or wrong but I tend to think waiting and not fouling immediately and trying to force a turnover is best, but I think you do eventually foul.

I agree with you here...they are a good ft shooting team so I don't know that you want to put them on the line unless you have to...or you foul a shooter in 60% range...then I see it. I don't know who was in at the end so maybe all their good shooters were in....in any event it sounds like we played a very good game....if we continue we can win 5 more