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In the Jim Les era and possibly even further back-- as I have noted, not one Valley team except possibly BU -- who fired their coach and hired a new one can legitimately say they got better and none except BU has ever won an NCAA game.
So when I see opinions on the board that appear to think it happens all the time .. I feel compelled to correct those errors.
Even those claiming MSU is lots better -- have a severe memory deficit -- since Missouri State under Barry were not only just as good, and had better RPI, quality NBA-caliber players, and just remember who recruited all those players Cuonzo is winning with -- let's just see how he does when he loses the guys that fell in his lap.
Tornado,
I believe your time frame is too short....
And the thing is, NO ONE has produced the kind of success at BU that those most advocating a change are seeking.
Dick Versace did - 3 titles, 3 top 3 finishes in 8 seasons. I like your defeatist attitude though that we can't possibly have that kind of success anymore.
But to your point, how about success in line with previous coaches? Not one has a conference record this bad, not even Stan. Stan was 10 over in league play, and he was terrible!
In the Jim Les era and possibly even further back-- as I have noted, not one Valley team except possibly BU -- who fired their coach and hired a new one can legitimately say they got better and none except BU has ever won an NCAA game.
So when I see opinions on the board that appear to think it happens all the time .. I feel compelled to correct those errors.
Even those claiming MSU is lots better -- have a severe memory deficit -- since Missouri State under Barry were not only just as good, and had better RPI, quality NBA-caliber players, and just remember who recruited all those players Cuonzo is winning with -- let's just see how he does when he loses the guys that fell in his lap.
And are you certain it is all due to the coaching and nothing else, because only then will a change of coaches stand any chance of changing it.
You don't think some of the reason for the team's performance is the season-ending medical issues to 2 All-MVC players? perhaps the top point guard in the MVC and one of the top inside players in the league?
Season long, the injuries are ONE of the issues facing Bradley.
However, Bradley didn't lose last night because of those injuries. Player injuries from earlier in the season do not cause teams to blow massive, late, home leads to a 1 win conference team last night.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Dick Versace did - 3 titles, 3 top 3 finishes in 8 seasons. I like your defeatist attitude though that we can't possibly have that kind of success anymore.
But to your point, how about success in line with previous coaches? Not one has a conference record this bad, not even Stan. Stan was 10 over in league play, and he was terrible!
Yep, DV did with JJ and Hersey. And he also broke the rules.
Jim Les may deserve to be fired, but not doing what has never been done should not be the reason.
From another thread...
Record Without an NBA Player (JJ, HH, AP, POB)
Versace 31-26
Albeck 32-54
Molinari 92-113
Les 113-105
That stat does not tell the whole story of their tenure, obviously, but it is valid nonetheless.
Yep, DV did with JJ and Hersey. And he also broke the rules.
Jim Les may deserve to be fired, but not doing what has never been done should not be the reason.
From another thread...
Record Without an NBA Player (JJ, HH, AP, POB)
Versace 31-26
Albeck 32-54
Molinari 92-113
Les 113-105
That stat does not tell the whole story of their tenure, obviously, but it is valid nonetheless.
You can look at a lot of situations...one could also argue both AP and POB were not NBA-ready while collegiates...
You can also look at BU coaches hired who had DI experience vs. those who were hired with none, and you get some interesting numbers...
With DI experience:
-17 years at Bradley
-2 MVC Championships (not in MVC Forddy's last 3 years)
-3 NCAA appearances
-2 National Championship game appearances
-5 2nd place finishes
-1 NIT Championship appearance
Without DI experience:
-45 combined years
-5 MVC Championships
-5 NCAA Appearances
-4 NIT Championships & 1 more Final appearance
-7 2nd place finishes
So in theory (and that's all it is) you are basically looking at a disparity of:
-1 MVC title every 7 years vs. every 9
-1 NCAA appearance every 5.6 years vs. every 9
-2nd place finishes every 2.8 years vs. every 6.4
And the thing is, NO ONE has produced the kind of success at BU that those most advocating a change are seeking.
Wait, so let me get this straight...
You two are basically advocating that we should just expect mediocrity because there's no way anyone we bring in will have remotely a shot at winning any conference titles or tournament titles?!
Wow, I guess we should just give up then, pack it in, and move to DII
It would be nice one year to be looked at with the target on our backs for a change...
It would be nice for me to be able to make a drive to Scottrade and feel like short of a collapse, we ARE the team to beat in the tournament and our chances of winning it are great...
It would be nice to feel confident going into every game at Carver that we're gonna whip our opponent from bell to bell...
None of those things are happening right now and none are likely in the near future...
Heck, our only luck this year is figuring out how to do so poorly that we got out of the bracket with the #1 seed...
That said, I am positive....positive that if this keeps going the way it's going, it will keep me from spending any more money on the program in the interim, and that a change must and will be made in the future!
Whether it makes us better, I don't know, but I am POSITIVE it can't be any worse than this!
You can look at a lot of situations...one could also argue both AP and POB were not NBA-ready while collegiates...
You can also look at BU coaches hired who had DI experience vs. those who were hired with none, and you get some interesting numbers...
With DI experience:
-17 years at Bradley
-2 MVC Championships (not in MVC Forddy's last 3 years)
-3 NCAA appearances
-2 National Championship game appearances
-5 2nd place finishes
-1 NIT Championship appearance
Without DI experience:
-45 combined years
-5 MVC Championships
-5 NCAA Appearances
-4 NIT Championships & 1 more Final appearance
-7 2nd place finishes
So in theory (and that's all it is) you are basically looking at a disparity of:
-1 MVC title every 7 years vs. every 9
-1 NCAA appearance every 5.6 years vs. every 9
-2nd place finishes every 2.8 years vs. every 6.4
Sure. There are enough stats to substantiate every position from criminal to saint. Those in charge need to decide what they consider their priorities in terms of the qualities of a coach, and evaluate JL on those, and decide if they can find someone better.
BC...we are stretching this far?...records without an NBA player....
how about records with coaches over 6 feet?
records with players who names start with the letter J?
they are absolutely meaningless
Sure. There are enough stats to substantiate every position from criminal to saint. Those in charge need to decide what they consider their priorities in terms of the qualities of a coach, and evaluate JL on those, and decide if they can find someone better.
Yep, DV did with JJ and Hersey. And he also broke the rules.
Jim Les may deserve to be fired, but not doing what has never been done should not be the reason.
From another thread...
Record Without an NBA Player (JJ, HH, AP, POB)
Versace 31-26
Albeck 32-54
Molinari 92-113
Les 113-105
That stat does not tell the whole story of their tenure, obviously, but it is valid nonetheless.
Isn't recruiting part of the equation? About the only person the 'non-NBA player' argument works for is Stan. Every other guy recruited their NBA player, including Les (see, I am giving him credit). So it counts. One could make a strong argument that recruiting, and not X's and O's, is a bigger reason why we're at where we are at right now.
And I would be careful on the 'cheating' accusations with Dickie V. There have been NCAA infractions in this regime as well. This time though, we didn't lie about them.
Absolutely. My point is that if you are trying to evaluate a coach, in general, it might be valid to look at the times where a player will not just flat out win a game for you, regardless of game plan. It is an attempt to look at how the coach does with your typical MVC player types.
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