BU 68--CU 81 final post game thread

[bustudent]

I have little doubt they work hard and that that is an incorrect statement in any way. That's not the point.

When will someone just say that the coaches are not good enough and neither are they players.

[shaunguth]

Kelly was and is grossly overrated.

I completely agree!

[Buesch N Chips]

I have little doubt they work hard and that that is an incorrect statement in any way. That's not the point.

Everyone knows what your point is. It's your purpose for every post. But if you are going to acknowledge potential shortcomings in scouting, preparedness, and fundamentals, which I am sure are also judged by the people that do the hiring and firing, you also need to be fair and acknowledge injuries, inexperience, and bad luck, even if it does not support your agenda. And vice versa. It goes for the rose-colored glasses crowd as well as the poop-colored ones. Failure to present both sides is a failure to be objective.

[ER3]

Everyone knows what your point is. It's your purpose for every post. But if you are going to acknowledge potential shortcomings in scouting, preparedness, and fundamentals, which I am sure are also judged by the people that do the hiring and firing, you also need to be fair and acknowledge injuries, inexperience, and bad luck, even if it does not support your agenda. And vice versa. It goes for the rose-colored glasses crowd as well as the poop-colored ones. Failure to present both sides is a failure to be objective.

No one on this entire board is truly objective.
Everyone has an agenda...everyone has their own theory as to what needs to be done to fix the problem...and that theory creeps into ever post that is made out here...just the way it is in message board land...

[Da Coach]

You do realize Indiana State played large chunks of last season without 4 starters and tied us in the league standing, right?

If you can't stand constructive criticism, I can't help you.

Please. This is how urban myths get started.

Only 3 of their "starters" missed any games due to injuries-Dwayne Lathan, Jake Kelly, and Harry Marshall. And Lathan was not a starter early in the season and became a regular starter after Kelly's injury. No other player on their roster missed any significant time with injuries. So how did you come up with the "4 starters"?

Harry Marshall missed 7 games (only missed 4 MVC games).
Dwayne Lathan missed 12 games.
Jake Kelly missed 20 games.

That is a total of 39 missed games by Indiana State starters.

Bradley had Dodie Dunson who missed 29 games, and another dozen more missed by various other players. So your point is moot.

[TheAsianSensation]

I never like comparing specific situations with other programs. All I'm hearing is Indiana St this, Indiana St that, that's dandy and all, but irrelevant to this program. We have our own expectations and shouldn't use other teams' performances to substitute for it.

We have enough problems as is, we don't need to go spot other teams to show what the problems are.

[Da Coach]

I never like comparing specific situations with other programs. All I'm hearing is Indiana St this, Indiana St that, that's dandy and all, but irrelevant to this program. We have our own expectations and shouldn't use other teams' performances to substitute for it.

We have enough problems as is, we don't need to go spot other teams to show what the problems are.

TAS, that is not what happened. Just the opposite.
There are problems at Bradley, but we are being told we should have no trouble overcoming them because the Sycamores were able to do it (never mind that the Sycamores' injury problems were grossly exaggerated above).

[TheAsianSensation]

TAS, that is not what happened. Just the opposite.
There are problems at Bradley, but we are being told we should have no trouble overcoming them because the Sycamores were able to do it (never mind that the Sycamores' injury problems were grossly exaggerated above).

That's sorta what I'm saying. Their injury situation is different. Their personnel is different. Their program is different. I don't get why they matter to so many with respect to Bradley's current situation.

[ER3]

That's sorta what I'm saying. Their injury situation is different. Their personnel is different. Their program is different. I don't get why they matter to so many with respect to Bradley's current situation.

I think the reason that Indy State keeps getting brought up is because it seems like every time someone brings up the opinion that it is totally inexcusable for BU to go this far into the tank...the "optimistic voices" on the board tell us over and over again..."of course we can't win...we lost two quality players, what do you expect...?" That response doesn't hold a lot of water when you've got a team at the top of our conference overachieving without having two of their best players for much of the time...

[Lakeview Brave]

Why does this continually happen DC? It happened last year and again this year. Why are these career games always coming at our expense?

Because we dont play D and we havent in 9 years. I dont think we finished in the top half of the league on D when we had POB (I might be wrong) but every other year we were horrible for. I have been pointing out other teams having players go for a career high against us for years. We have had one person in 9 years who can block a shot and a few decent one on one defenders who get killed because we dont rotate correctly, dont blocks shots and generally dont rebound.

[Da Coach]

Bradley was tied for 3rd best 3-point defense in MVC games going into tonight's game. But that must be an accident, since we don't ever play any defense and haven't for 9 years.

[Lakeview Brave]

Lets provide the complete picture shall we... Here are the up to date stats for this season. Thank God we are not the worst in giving up threes like we are in most other areas or we would be losing by 50. I think a close look at the last 9 years will show us in the bottom half of nearly all these areas.


SCORING DEFENSE G Pts Avg/G
1. Northern Iowa 19 1079 56.8
2. Missouri State 18 1096 60.9
3. Wichita State 18 1100 61.1
4. Indiana State 18 1115 61.9
5. Illinois State 19 1195 62.9
6. Creighton 19 1197 63.0
7. Southern Illinois 19 1224 64.4
8. Evansville 18 1195 66.4
9. Drake 19 1271 66.9
10. Bradley 18 1227 68.2


SCORING MARGIN G Offense Defense Margin
1. Wichita State 18 74.3 61.1 +13.2
2. Missouri State 18 71.4 60.9 +10.6
3. Northern Iowa 19 62.1 56.8 +5.3
4. Indiana State 18 66.2 61.9 +4.2
5. Creighton 19 66.3 63.0 +3.3
6. Evansville 18 66.2 66.4 -0.2
7. Southern Illinois 19 63.4 64.4 -1.0
8. Illinois State 19 61.5 62.9 -1.4
9. Drake 19 63.3 66.9 -3.6
10. Bradley 18 63.2 68.2 -5.0

FIELD GOAL PCT DEFENSE G FGM FGA Pct
1. Wichita State 18 388 966 .402
2. Indiana State 18 366 908 .403
3. Northern Iowa 19 380 911 .417
4. Creighton 19 457 1091 .419
5. Southern Illinois 19 410 960 .427
6. Illinois State 19 432 1002 .431
7. Missouri State 18 399 922 .433
8. Drake 19 445 1021 .436
9. Bradley 18 425 966 .440
10. Evansville 18 409 893 .458

3-POINT FG PCT DEFENSE G 3FGM 3FGA Pct
1. Drake 19 102 330 .309
2. Indiana State 18 90 285 .316
3. Missouri State 18 78 235 .332
4. Bradley 18 119 358 .332
5. Southern Illinois 19 93 270 .344
6. Northern Iowa 19 113 325 .348
7. Wichita State 18 102 293 .348
8. Illinois State 19 127 358 .355
9. Evansville 18 113 314 .360
10. Creighton 19 137 376 .364


REBOUNDING DEFENSE G Rebounds Avg/G
1. Wichita State 18 514 28.6
2. Southern Illinois 19 558 29.4
3. Missouri State 18 529 29.4
4. Northern Iowa 19 571 30.1
5. Evansville 18 575 31.9
6. Indiana State 18 577 32.1
7. Illinois State 19 613 32.3
8. Creighton 19 625 32.9
9. Bradley 18 635 35.3
10. Drake 19 714 37.6

BLOCKED SHOTS G No. Avg/G
1. Indiana State 18 87 4.8
2. Illinois State 19 71 3.7
3. Wichita State 18 67 3.7
4. Missouri State 18 59 3.3
5. Drake 19 58 3.1
6. Creighton 19 56 2.9
7. Southern Illinois 19 45 2.4
8. Bradley 18 35 1.9
Evansville 18 35 1.9
10. Northern Iowa 19 35 1.8

[Big Mike]

Reynolds: on theCU game...

http://www.bradleyhoops.com/news/x684395871/Braves-drubbed-in-Omaha

[shaunguth]

Lets provide the complete picture shall we... Here are the up to date stats for this season. Thank God we are not the worst in giving up threes like we are in most other areas or we would be losing by 50. I think a close look at the last 9 years will show us in the bottom half of nearly all these areas.


SCORING DEFENSE G Pts Avg/G
1. Northern Iowa 19 1079 56.8
2. Missouri State 18 1096 60.9
3. Wichita State 18 1100 61.1
4. Indiana State 18 1115 61.9
5. Illinois State 19 1195 62.9
6. Creighton 19 1197 63.0
7. Southern Illinois 19 1224 64.4
8. Evansville 18 1195 66.4
9. Drake 19 1271 66.9
10. Bradley 18 1227 68.2


SCORING MARGIN G Offense Defense Margin
1. Wichita State 18 74.3 61.1 +13.2
2. Missouri State 18 71.4 60.9 +10.6
3. Northern Iowa 19 62.1 56.8 +5.3
4. Indiana State 18 66.2 61.9 +4.2
5. Creighton 19 66.3 63.0 +3.3
6. Evansville 18 66.2 66.4 -0.2
7. Southern Illinois 19 63.4 64.4 -1.0
8. Illinois State 19 61.5 62.9 -1.4
9. Drake 19 63.3 66.9 -3.6
10. Bradley 18 63.2 68.2 -5.0

FIELD GOAL PCT DEFENSE G FGM FGA Pct
1. Wichita State 18 388 966 .402
2. Indiana State 18 366 908 .403
3. Northern Iowa 19 380 911 .417
4. Creighton 19 457 1091 .419
5. Southern Illinois 19 410 960 .427
6. Illinois State 19 432 1002 .431
7. Missouri State 18 399 922 .433
8. Drake 19 445 1021 .436
9. Bradley 18 425 966 .440
10. Evansville 18 409 893 .458

3-POINT FG PCT DEFENSE G 3FGM 3FGA Pct
1. Drake 19 102 330 .309
2. Indiana State 18 90 285 .316
3. Missouri State 18 78 235 .332
4. Bradley 18 119 358 .332
5. Southern Illinois 19 93 270 .344
6. Northern Iowa 19 113 325 .348
7. Wichita State 18 102 293 .348
8. Illinois State 19 127 358 .355
9. Evansville 18 113 314 .360
10. Creighton 19 137 376 .364


REBOUNDING DEFENSE G Rebounds Avg/G
1. Wichita State 18 514 28.6
2. Southern Illinois 19 558 29.4
3. Missouri State 18 529 29.4
4. Northern Iowa 19 571 30.1
5. Evansville 18 575 31.9
6. Indiana State 18 577 32.1
7. Illinois State 19 613 32.3
8. Creighton 19 625 32.9
9. Bradley 18 635 35.3
10. Drake 19 714 37.6

BLOCKED SHOTS G No. Avg/G
1. Indiana State 18 87 4.8
2. Illinois State 19 71 3.7
3. Wichita State 18 67 3.7
4. Missouri State 18 59 3.3
5. Drake 19 58 3.1
6. Creighton 19 56 2.9
7. Southern Illinois 19 45 2.4
8. Bradley 18 35 1.9
Evansville 18 35 1.9
10. Northern Iowa 19 35 1.8

I believe the true complete picture would be conference stats only. I'm not terribly surprised the numbers used here go hand in hand with comparing isu's schedule to that of every other team in the conference. I guess in some eyes around here.....that would tell the complete story......but not really.

[tornado]

How can that be? I thought losing your two best players means that it is a certainty that you will lose every Valley game? How is it that Indy State is 7-1? Hmmmm....

hmm..seems I saw Kelly & Lathan playing in each of their last several games, and...
both were in last night's box score as well......and according to the official league stats,
the two of them COMBINED have missed a grand total of EIGHT games, compared to Taylor Brown + Sammy missing a total of 32 games...

somehow I think someone is really stretching reality and the truth to say Indiana State has been playing without their two best players and trying to make a comparison to Bradley.