Just the facts.....No opinions

[Braves4Life]

it is believed (and I have it from good source) that Coach Les has three more years left on his contract..
(it was reported he got an extension through 2014)
..so it would cost Bradley (in difficult economic times) a minimum of $1.2 million....plus some of the ongoing revenue pledged for the new facilities and not yet in the bank might also dry up.....

Personally, I'm ready for a change. I've divorced myself from the idea of Les as Bradley's coach...... and I'm at peace with this. However, I think it is highly unlikely that BU makes a change given these numbers. I think this implores the Administration to give him one last year to show what he can do...... and I'm good with that. But I've also seen enough to come to the conclusion that Les has not evolved as a coach or a recruiter. And that's a shame because I really like the guy.

[OrangeandBlack74]

That's what I meant by the S16 run, yes...

Although I think you're missing the overall point of that whole post: I presented several facts that are currently being used as major crutches for both sides of the argument.

What side of the argument does the sandwich fall on?

Seriously though...

1. No regular season championships in 8 years, despite promises to the contrary.
2. No MVC tournament championships in 8 years.
3. 5 consecutive appearances in the 2:30 Friday tournament game.
4. 6 consecutive conference losses in 2010-11 season.
5. 5 home losses in 2010-11 season (not including the loss to Quincy)

And these numbers won't get any better after Sunday night...

[shaunguth]

First, something can only be used as a reason once, maybe twice...after that, it is in fact just an excuse...

Using this thought process, as someone else brought up in another thread.....if Jordan was injured two different seasons during his time with the Bulls, it would have been a "reason" the first time and an "excuse" the second time?

[shaunguth]

Second, I thought just as you win and lose as a team, you win and lose as a staff, correct?

I do, which is why I find it odd that Les seems to only get the blame and not the credit. As I stated, our bigs had a good game and Platt got the credit. Our bigs have a bad game, Les gets the blame.

[Buesch N Chips]

1. No regular season championships in 8 years, despite promises to the contrary.

Jim Les promised a conference championship within 8 years?

[ER3]

Personally, I'm ready for a change. I've divorced myself from the idea of Les as Bradley's coach...... and I'm at peace with this. However, I think it is highly unlikely that BU makes a change given these numbers. I think this implores the Administration to give him one last year to show what he can do...... and I'm good with that. But I've also seen enough to come to the conclusion that Les has not evolved as a coach or a recruiter. And that's a shame because I really like the guy.

Agree with all points you made here.
If they can't make the change because there isn't a suitable buyout clause in Les's contract, I guess we'll just have to live with it...however, going into next year with the same staff, the same systems, etc. in place makes it very difficult to sell the fan base on the notion that we are going to magically turn into a disciplined, fundamentally-sound, title-contending program next year, IMO.
Certainly no guarantee that a new coach could make this transformation happen either...but a different face at the helm of the program with a different message at least gives you the ability to think that the potential exists for things to change dramatically for the better...

[theBUer]

Jim Les promised a conference championship within 8 years?

Scroll to page 18.

http://www.bradley.edu/hilltopics/archives/pdf/Hilltopics-v12i3web-2006summer.pdf

[ER3]

Jim Les promised a conference championship within 8 years?

We've been through this same point of contention a thousand times...
He said "I envision Missouri Valley Conference championships"...that was what said...
Now...If you choose to look at that phrase as "he hoped for them", "he promised them", "he liked the idea of them", whatever...it's up to your own interpretation.
No real use in arguing the semantics of what he said...he envisioned Missouri Valley Championships for BU during his tenure...it hasn't happened yet...it is what it is. A lot of leaders set bold, challenging goals for their organizations...some are met, some are not...now it is the job of his bosses to determine whether he gets additional chances to meet this goal or whether it is time to give a different leader a chance to set goals for this program and see if he can achieve them...

[cpacmel]

Your #'s are alittle off. But I agree that the economy will keep coaches in their jobs longer.

I have produced facts...

here's one more...
every year between 2005-2006 and 2008-2009 there were MORE THAN 60 new head coaches hired in Division I...
Last year there far fewer and there'll be fewer yet this year because of the economy...

Last year(2010) there were 54 job openings:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4980452

The year before (2009) there were 28 job openings:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11315259

2 years ago (200 there were 43 job openings:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/10592405

3 years ago (2007) there were 60 job openings:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/10592405

4 years ago (2006) there were 61 job openings:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2332918

[Buesch N Chips]

We've been through this same point of contention a thousand times...
He said "I envision Missouri Valley Conference championships"...that was what said...
Now...If you choose to look at that phrase as "he hoped for them", "he promised them", "he liked the idea of them", whatever...it's up to your own interpretation.
No real use in arguing the semantics of what he said...he envisioned Missouri Valley Championships for BU during his tenure...it hasn't happened yet...it is what it is. A lot of leaders set bold, challenging goals for their organizations...some are met, some are not...now it is the job of his bosses to determine whether he gets additional chances to meet this goal or whether it is time to give a different leader a chance to set goals for this program and see if he can achieve them...

That's all fine, I'm just trying to delineate between facts and interpretations.

[FortyTwo]

To me, winning % in the Valley is the true measure of success or failure. It isn't affected by the ease or difficulty of non-conference schedules or post-season tourney's like the CBI and CIT. You are truly being measured against your peers. And if you factor in all the things that make up the Bradley basketball program relative to their MVC peers, I think it's a fact that we have underachieved in the JL tenure. Compare our resources to the rest of the Valley and we should not be middle of the pack and certainly shouldn't go 9 years without finishing in the upper third or winning a valley tournament title.

[squirrelgotdead]

Your #'s are alittle off. But I agree that the economy will keep coaches in their jobs longer.

I agree and disagree. I believe it has kept coaches in some positions longer, however, when the economy tanked 2 years ago, extensions by and large also weren't being granted and if they were, they were much more conservative (more 1 year extensions instead of 3-5 year deals). Obviously there were exceptions like Izzo at MSU and Stevens at Butler, but those are obviously the exceptions and not the rule.

So since there won't be so many buyouts (or at least severe ones) in this economy, you won't see the numbers drop off the way is being implied once contracts expire.

[OrangeandBlack74]

That's all fine, I'm just trying to delineate between facts and interpretations.

Hmmm...I thought my original post was factual.

While I used the term "promise" rather than "envision", you certainly don't need to be a rocket scientist to know what JL meant when he said it.

[LittleBrave]

Times in the past 3 years ISU has finished above Bradley in conference: 3

Number of bites I've taken in my sandwich while composing this post: 8

Man, the last 2 facts really BITE!

[Da Coach]

Times in the past 3 years ISU has finished above Bradley in conference: 3

Since championships and NCAA appearances are what a lot of fans are complaining about-

Number of NCAA tournament games ISU has won in the last 5 years- 0 (BU 2)
Number of times ISU has appeared in the NCAA in the last 5 years- 0 (BU 1)
Number of times in the last 5 years ISU has won the MVC- 0 (BU 0)
Number of times in the last 5 years ISU has won the MVC tournament- 0 (BU 0)
Bradley record against ISU in last 5 seasons- BU 6 ISU 4