Indiana State 80-BU 66

[AZ BU Fan]

So the good news is BU Late Bloomers AT and WE will finally be All American, and DSE, MK and JE All Conference, next season?

Woohoo

Hopefully JP, AD, RA, DS and NW will be Early Bloomers for BU

That's what I'm talking about....

[Grassman]

Then you need an antenna and a digital tuner for free over-the-air digital. If you have a DVR You can buy an AM-21 from DirecTv if you want a digital tuner integrated with your guide and DVR functionality..

Say What? Sounds easier just to go to BWW! But, Thanks.

[BradleyBrave]

Hey BB what part of "he did not play organized bball and generated little interest among college basketball coaches, does not mean a PROJECT! I know what a project is! All I ask is that you admit that it is the holiday and a few cocktails got the better of you. I grew up in Maryland and one thing you do growing up there is follow the Maryland teams and their players, just like you do if you grow uo in Illinois. David Robinson is a classic late bloomer even more so then MJ.

'Late bloomer' and 'project' are not one in the same. Robinson wasn't a project. Are you now saying Michael Jordan was a project? He was a McDonald's All-American!

[SFP]

'Late bloomer' and 'project' are not one in the same. Robinson wasn't a project. Are you now saying Michael Jordan was a project? He was a McDonald's All-American!

MJ was a late bloomer but not a project. David Robinson was considered a project going into college though. Can you dispute that? Come on just admit you got carried away. That's all I'm asking for. I know I do occasionally.

[mrcoachdude]

Spin it all you want, these guys aren't Division I newbies. Now we have to be older than everyone to win? We have one guy on the team who's only a year removed from high school. Everyone else has played against Division I competition for over a year.

I thought we were done with the 'experience' excuse last year...even though it was a fallacy then as well.

didn't say anything about winning and you spun 1st...we are simply NOT the oldest most experienced team in the Valley...like you stated...

[mrcoachdude]

What is factually 'wrong' about my post?

Sticks and Egolf are both 4th year players. - TRUE - Should big men in their 4th year at the college level be able to contribute?

AW and DD are both 5th year seniors. - TRUE - Enough said.

Prosser is in his 2nd year with the program. - TRUE - He was one of the more highly regarded recruits we've landed, and has been going against Division I competition for a year. I am fine with his progress.

DSE, Eastman, and Milos all logged minutes last year. - TRUE - All 3 played significant roles at one point last year.

The only newbie where this excuse holds any water is Lemon. - TRUE - Only true freshman on the roster.

Even with the injuries we're one of the oldest, most experienced teams in the league. - TRUE

Everything I said is factual. What is misleading?

"Even with the injuries we're one of the oldest, most experienced teams in the league. NEXT EXCUSE!"

I already showed you what you stated was wrong...and I only showed you two teams...need more?

[BradleyBrave]

"Even with the injuries we're one of the oldest, most experienced teams in the league. NEXT EXCUSE!"

I already showed you what you stated was wrong...and I only showed you two teams...need more?

Everything I stated was true. What will the excuse be next year?

[mrcoachdude]

Everything I stated was true. What will the excuse be next year?

BB you stated ---> "Even with the injuries we're one of the oldest, most experienced teams in the league"

that is just not true.....no excuses being made...but the fact is the fact...

[Braves4Life]

BB you stated ---> "Even with the injuries we're one of the oldest, most experienced teams in the league"

that is just not true.....no excuses being made...but the fact is the fact...

WL -- Freshman
JP -- Fresh.
AD -- Fresh.
DSE -- Soph.
JE -- Soph.
MK -- Soph.
CW -- Soph.
AG -- Soph. Walk-on
AT -- Jr.
WE -- Jr.

AW & DD -- The only Seniors

Not a whole lot of big game experience there.

[BradleyBrave]

WL -- Freshman
JP -- Fresh.
AD -- Fresh.
DSE -- Soph.
JE -- Soph.
MK -- Soph.
CW -- Soph.
AG -- Soph. Walk-on
AT -- Jr.
WE -- Jr.

AW & DD -- The only Seniors

Not a whole lot of big game experience there.

First, why are Andrew Davis, Charron Woods, and Aaron Ganson even mentioned in this discussion? They don't play, so they're irrelevant as far as this is concerned.

Let's be clear on this -

JP -- Fresh (2nd year of DI)
AD -- Fresh. (Doesn't play/Doesn't matter)
DSE -- Soph. (2nd year of DI, played significant minutes last year)
JE -- Soph. (2nd year of DI, played significant minutes last year)
MK -- Soph. (2nd year of DI)
CW -- Soph. (Doesn't play/Doesn't matter)
AG -- Soph. Walk-on (Doesn't play/Doesn't matter)
AT -- Jr. (4th year of DI)
WE -- Jr. (4th year of DI)

AW & DD -- The only Seniors (Both 5th year players)

Again, of players who play, Walter Lemon is the only one with the 'experience' excuse.

By continuing to use this experience crutch, you're basically saying that we should not expect two 4th year bigs to be able to contribute anything at this level, nor should we expect 2 sophomores who averaged a combined 30+ minutes a game to contribute anything either. We have 4 players with in at least their 4th year of DI, and 2 others in their 2nd year of DI who logged big minutes as freshmen. But experience is our problem? Quality depth perhaps may be a problem, but not experience.

Anyone remember this article way back in November 2009?

http://www.bradleyhoops.com/news/x255180771/Essential-ingredients-to-be-in-MVC-mix

The strengths: Depth, experience, guard play, perimeter shooting and a potential star.

The Braves’ roster hasn’t been this deep since their NCAA Sweet 16 run in 2006. Eight players have cracked the starting lineup at some point in their careers and averaged 10 or more minutes per game over an entire season. Four started at least half the games last season. Andrew Warren, who missed last year with a broken foot, started all but one game the previous season.

So I guess we had experience last year after all.

And what about this article, this November?

http://www.bradleyhoops.com/news/x115985123/Bradley-fans-hopeful-of-big-season

But Bradley this season will field its oldest, most veteran team since the 2005-06 squad reached the NCAA Sweet 16 for the first time in half a century.

After further review, despite our injuries, it appears that the Sweet 16 team had less DI experience from the top 8 players.

Ruffin - 3rd year DI - 21 yrs old
Sommerville - 4th year DI - 23 yrs old
Bennett - 2nd year DI - 21 yrs old
Boogie - 2nd year DI - 22 yrs old
Andrews - 1st year DI - 21 yrs old
O'Bryant - 2nd year DI - 19 yrs old
Tauai - 3rd year DI - 20 yrs old
Franklin - 1st year DI - 20 yrs old

18 years DI experience/average age 20.875 years during NCAA Tournament.

Dunson - 4th year DI - 23 yrs old (Will be 24 on Jan 6)
Warren - 5th year DI - 23 yrs old
Egolf - 4th year DI - 21 yrs old (Will be 22 on Jan 20)
Thompson - 4th year DI - 22 yrs old
Eastman - 2nd year DI - 20 yrs old
Simms-Edwards - 2nd year DI - 19 yrs old
Prosser - 2nd year DI - 19 yrs old
Lemon - 1st year DI - 19 yrs old

24 years DI experience/average age 20.75 now, 21 by the end of January.

I'll ask one final question - If 'experience' is what is keeping us from winning, all other things being equal (injuries, etc) would we be any better with Sam Singh playing? Right now Jordan Prosser is giving us 4.0 ppg and 5.5 rpg. Last year Sam Singh gave us 1.7 ppg and 3.2 rpg.

Enough about 'experience' being the reason we aren't winning. It was a weak excuse last year and it's a weak excuse this year. You get 13 scholarships not 5, and if guys aren't ready to contribute by year 2 let alone year 4, then perhaps the issue isn't really experience at all. I don't expect us to be as good losing 2 all-conference players, but I also don't expect to be as bad as we are now, especially since reality and mathematics says we have plenty of 'experience' to compete.

[real fan]

First, why are Andrew Davis, Charron Woods, and Aaron Ganson even mentioned in this discussion? They don't play, so they're irrelevant as far as this is concerned.

Let's be clear on this -

JP -- Fresh (2nd year of DI)
AD -- Fresh. (Doesn't play/Doesn't matter)
DSE -- Soph. (2nd year of DI, played significant minutes last year)
JE -- Soph. (2nd year of DI, played significant minutes last year)
MK -- Soph. (2nd year of DI)
CW -- Soph. (Doesn't play/Doesn't matter)
AG -- Soph. Walk-on (Doesn't play/Doesn't matter)
AT -- Jr. (4th year of DI)
WE -- Jr. (4th year of DI)

AW & DD -- The only Seniors (Both 5th year players)

Again, of players who play, Walter Lemon is the only one with the 'experience' excuse.

By continuing to use this experience crutch, you're basically saying that we should not expect two 4th year bigs to be able to contribute anything at this level, nor should we expect 2 sophomores who averaged a combined 30+ minutes a game to contribute anything either. We have 4 players with in at least their 4th year of DI, and 2 others in their 2nd year of DI who logged big minutes as freshmen. But experience is our problem? Quality depth perhaps may be a problem, but not experience.

Anyone remember this article way back in November 2009?

http://www.bradleyhoops.com/news/x255180771/Essential-ingredients-to-be-in-MVC-mix

The strengths: Depth, experience, guard play, perimeter shooting and a potential star.

The Braves??™ roster hasn??™t been this deep since their NCAA Sweet 16 run in 2006. Eight players have cracked the starting lineup at some point in their careers and averaged 10 or more minutes per game over an entire season. Four started at least half the games last season. Andrew Warren, who missed last year with a broken foot, started all but one game the previous season.

So I guess we had experience last year after all.

And what about this article, this November?

http://www.bradleyhoops.com/news/x115985123/Bradley-fans-hopeful-of-big-season

But Bradley this season will field its oldest, most veteran team since the 2005-06 squad reached the NCAA Sweet 16 for the first time in half a century.

After further review, despite our injuries, it appears that the Sweet 16 team had less DI experience from the top 8 players.

Ruffin - 3rd year DI - 21 yrs old
Sommerville - 4th year DI - 23 yrs old
Bennett - 2nd year DI - 21 yrs old
Boogie - 2nd year DI - 22 yrs old
Andrews - 1st year DI - 21 yrs old
O'Bryant - 2nd year DI - 19 yrs old
Tauai - 3rd year DI - 20 yrs old
Franklin - 1st year DI - 20 yrs old

18 years DI experience/average age 20.875 years during NCAA Tournament.

Dunson - 4th year DI - 23 yrs old (Will be 24 on Jan 6)
Warren - 5th year DI - 23 yrs old
Egolf - 4th year DI - 21 yrs old (Will be 22 on Jan 20)
Thompson - 4th year DI - 22 yrs old
Eastman - 2nd year DI - 20 yrs old
Simms-Edwards - 2nd year DI - 19 yrs old
Prosser - 2nd year DI - 19 yrs old
Lemon - 1st year DI - 19 yrs old

24 years DI experience/average age 20.75 now, 21 by the end of January.

I'll ask one final question - If 'experience' is what is keeping us from winning, all other things being equal (injuries, etc) would we be any better with Sam Singh playing? Right now Jordan Prosser is giving us 4.0 ppg and 5.5 rpg. Last year Sam Singh gave us 1.7 ppg and 3.2 rpg.

Enough about 'experience' being the reason we aren't winning. It was a weak excuse last year and it's a weak excuse this year. You get 13 scholarships not 5, and if guys aren't ready to contribute by year 2 let alone year 4, then perhaps the issue isn't really experience at all. I don't expect us to be as good losing 2 all-conference players, but I also don't expect to be as bad as we are now, especially since reality and mathematics says we have plenty of 'experience' to compete.

You are 100% correct in that experience means nothing as far as several of our players go, it is sad when you cannot keep Egolf on the floor longer because every game he commits stupid fouls, Prosser is getting better but needs to get a lot better shooting free throws, A.T. has improved very little and when people believe a good game for a 6-10 4 year player is 3 points and 2 rebounds then they have 0 expectations for him, Milos supposedly is a good shooter but his stats do not back this up and we really need a 6-8 tough guy inside instead of another perimeter player, I really like Jake because of his willing to be tough and get rebounds but we really need him to also be able to knock down some perimeter shots, A.W. and DSE are both the players I expected them to be, Dodie has not been consistent and we cannot have that from a 5th year player, Maniscalso and Brown not being able to play hurt us a lot more because we do not have enough good shooters on this team because we recruited badly in that area.

[squirrelgotdead]

It's a good thing statistics are actually kept on this. Here is the Valley rating by experience (DI years):

Rnk Team Exp (Nat'l rank)

1. WSU 2.33 (23)
2. MSU 2.32 (25)
3. CU 1.89 (125)
4. SIU 1.87 (131)
5. BU 1.82 (150)
6. UE 1.80 (155)
7. InSU 1.73 (180)
8. IlSU 1.68 (195)
9. UNI 1.68 (198 )
10. DU 1.37 (280)

[Braves4Life]

It's a good thing statistics are actually kept on this. Here is the Valley rating by experience (DI years):

Rnk Team Exp (Nat'l rank)

1. WSU 2.33 (23)
2. MSU 2.32 (25)
3. CU 1.89 (125)
4. SIU 1.87 (131)
5. BU 1.82 (150)
6. UE 1.80 (155)
7. InSU 1.73 (180)
8. IlSU 1.68 (195)
9. UNI 1.68 (198 )
10. DU 1.37 (280)

Thanks squirrel! Good find. Of course, D1 experience doesn't mean as much to teams like UK, UNC, KU, or Duke. There, it's all about talent.

[BradleyBrave]

Thanks squirrel! Good find. Of course, D1 experience doesn't mean as much to teams like UK, UNC, KU, or Duke. There, it's all about talent.

What is it all about in the MVC?

[squirrelgotdead]

What is it all about in the MVC?

Ding ding ding. Actually throwing TB into it doesn't change BU's number much either.

Seeing BU at #5 on that list in what was expected to be a probable top 3 year with everyone on board and healthy seems to indicate we would have likely been disappointed again. IMO.