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U of I game - small ball

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  • U of I game - small ball

    did anyone see the story about the Illinois game?


    They erroneously used a women's ball for about the first 7 minutes of the game untuil the error was discovered...

    But where I worked this morning, several people who are fans expressed surprise -- as apparently it is NOT a very known fact that the women do indeed use a smaller ball...
    apparently there are a whole lot of people who are surprised by that fact and did not know it...and even fewer who know why there's a difference..or how it came about.

    Does anyone know exactly WHY this is the case -- after all in every other sport -- the size of the ball/puck/etc.. is the same - (and don't cite softball -- since that's a separate game from baseball and men DO play softball with the same size ball as women use)..

    Golf, tennis, ice hockey, ping pong, checkers, tiddley winks, lacross, volleyball, and even archery the size of the object being propelled (ball, puck, arrow, checkers) is exactly the same for women as it is for men...


    The answer is -- that nobody seems to know exactly why and where the decision was made -- but is was an idea adopted in the mid-1980's after a few years of study and debate.
    When the first women's pro league started up, the WBL in the late 1970's, they used the regulation men's ball.
    By the time the other pro leagues came about -- including the WNBA, the smaller women's ball was already in widespread use.

    The general explanation is "the women's hands are smaller and in general it is easier for them to handle the smaller ball".
    (But then, that means for many men, it also would be easier to handle the smaller ball but the men don't use it...)

    Anyway -- here are some facts --

    -Up until 1984, there was no such thing as a smaller ball for women. Women just used the same ball as the men...but the adoption of a smaller bal was being discussed mostly by college and NCAA people.

    -According to "Mad Seasons: The Story of the First Women's Professional Basketball League" ... By Karra Porter, it was not until 1984 that talk serious began on using a smaller ball..mostly based on an NCAA study titled...
    "Tests on small ball start to provide data"..but also other studies and articles indicated the women scored better and handled the ball better when the smaller one was used...
    including one from University of Illinois as far back as 1962 titled...
    "The Effect of a Modified Basketball Size on the Performance of Selected Basketball Skills by Senior High School Girls and College Women".

    By 1985, the NCAA appears to have been the first adopt the ball and the pro leagues adopted the smaller ball later as did most high schools...
    BUT....FIBA did NOT adopt the smaller ball and continued to use the men's size in international women's competition until they also finally changed in 2004.

    BTW -- along the same time period.....there was also talk and study about lowering the rim to 9.5 or 9.75 ft as well, but that never got done as it would have required many gyms throughout the world to undergo costly backboard and rim adjustments!

  • #2
    The players kept telling the refs but they wouldn't listen....kind of funny realy

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    • #3
      I coached girls basketball for 10 years, and I can tell you the ball is significantly smaller. The size of the ball is immensely helpful for girls, especially girls who are just learning to play.

      If you have ever seen a 5th or 6th grade girl trying to learn to dribble and handle a ball, you would understand.

      I find it shocking that the refs, who are in charge of checking the ball before the game did not notice the difference.
      When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

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      • #4
        I commented elsewhere that I feel the refs were a bit negligent here -- and some day such a mistake might cost a team a win in a very major game!

        BTW -- if you think this is rare -- the exact same thing just happened last weekend..in the Manual-Moton High School game locally..
        "The first half was more like a prize fight, with each team looking for a knockout punch neither could deliver.
        Manual (5-0) led 8-7 after an opening quarter both teams would like to forget.
        OOPS: The first seven minutes of the game was played with a girls basketball, which has a slightly smaller circumference
        than a boys basketball. The mistake was found with 57.2 seconds left in the first quarter"

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        • #5
          Must have been Summit refs. Which also helps explain why UIUC always gets homered even at home (I've actually had whiny UIUC fans tell me that).

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          • #6
            I watched the game online. (it is being replayed on the B10 Network at 4 pm if anyone wants to watch the confusion)

            Paul Sanzere was one of the referees and he is my LEAST favorite ref of all time. I could easily see him replying "blah there is nothing wrong with the ball, O was the a touch foul 40 feet from the hoop?"

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            • #7
              Sanzere suffers from little man's syndrome. When he worked Bradley games a few years ago he had to look up significantly to see Daniel.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Future Walk-On View Post
                I watched the game online. (it is being replayed on the B10 Network at 4 pm if anyone wants to watch the confusion)

                Paul Sanzere was one of the referees and he is my LEAST favorite ref of all time. I could easily see him replying "blah there is nothing wrong with the ball, O was the a touch foul 40 feet from the hoop?"
                Mike Sanzere and he is not one of my favorites, by not listening to the players complaining about the ball shows exactly why I would rather not have him doing a BU game, he gets a lot of big games and is suppose to be good , I don"t think he is.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by real fan View Post
                  Mike Sanzere and he is not one of my favorites, by not listening to the players complaining about the ball shows exactly why I would rather not have him doing a BU game, he gets a lot of big games and is suppose to be good , I don"t think he is.
                  Yeah I was just thinking I said Paul. There must be a Paul Sanzere I know up from somewhere.

                  He calls so many touch fouls that delay the flow of the game. You can tell he thinks he is very important.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tornado View Post
                    I commented elsewhere that I feel the refs were a bit negligent here -- and some day such a mistake might cost a team a win in a very major game!

                    BTW -- if you think this is rare -- the exact same thing just happened last weekend..in the Manual-Moton High School game locally..
                    "The first half was more like a prize fight, with each team looking for a knockout punch neither could deliver.
                    Manual (5-0) led 8-7 after an opening quarter both teams would like to forget.
                    OOPS: The first seven minutes of the game was played with a girls basketball, which has a slightly smaller circumference
                    than a boys basketball. The mistake was found with 57.2 seconds left in the first quarter"

                    http://www.pjstar.com/sports/x179052...hakes-off-rust
                    T, this is the second time its happened in a week and I don't remember ever hearing about it happening before. I agree its hard to understand how it happens there is a big difference in the diameter of the ball. Don't agree it will cost a team a game someday. Both teams are using the same ball. Not sure I understand your logic but it doesn't matter anyway.

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                    • #11
                      First -- I suspect it has happened other places at this level - just not gotten this much pub or been corrected without fanfare...

                      I have been to hundreds of high school basketball games in my life and even more games at the junior hi level and below...
                      I have seen this exact same thing happen probably a half dozen times or more...but it was corrected when found, nothing was made of the switch and the game played on..
                      When I used to coach my kids at the 5th, 6th, & 7th grade level at summer tourneys, we always carried a "small ball" or women's ball in our bag since some places & tournies use the smaller ball and others use the regular ball.
                      So we always wanted to have one of the smaller balls to use during warmups if we found that's the size they were going to use..

                      And I admit that it is different enough that if you pay close attention you have minimal trouble telling the difference.
                      BUT -- many, many times, in the hurry and excitement of getting out on the floor, preparing for the game, and shooting around...the kids frequently had the small ball when they thought they had the regular one...
                      Thus I can see it happening especially when the ball itself is so similar that the only designation on it is a tiny numeral...

                      These four balls are all women's balls -- can you easily see the place on the ball that says so? -- OF COURSE YOU CAN'T -- it's tiny!!
                      I believe the Nike is the one Illinois used.









                      To make sure it doesn't happen again -- why not use this ball -- it's what the ladies like to use!!

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                      • #12
                        BTW -- here's a similar story -- things like this DO happen and really don't surprise me...humans are prone to error..
                        at a 2002 tennis tourney both of the competitors was repeatedly double faulting...in the first match --
                        BUT -- the first match of the day went to completion with scores of 5-7, 6-4, 6-2...
                        so at least 150-200 points were played in that match...

                        Then -- only after the match was completed, likely two hours into the competition and 150-200 points played..
                        they measured the court and found it was laid out and striped improperly and that one side of the court had a baseline that was THREE FEET shorter than it should be!!!
                        Three feet represented nearly a FULL 20% shorter than it was supposed to be ..and that 15-20% difference in that court is FAR, FAR larger than the 3-4% difference in the women's small ball from the men's ball (28.5 cm vs 29.5 cm is precisely 3.39% difference, that's all...not the nearly 20% difference that this tennis mistake was!)

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                        • #13
                          1. I don't understand how this could happen. I've went to play pick up basketball at open gyms from time to time and I ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS can FEEL the difference if there is a girls' ball out there in warmups. I don't have to see the 28.5", nor do I even have to take a single shot. Just holding it in my hands before I shoot, the difference is very noticable to me. (and it drives me bananas!)

                          2. Something very similar happened in one of the grand slams this year. I want to say it was the US Open but I'm not sure...I do remember it was a women's match and the service boxes were not big enough and it caused double faults galore, and the players were protesting profusely!
                          "That is a dangerous game, friendo" -Kevin Malone on "The Office"

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                          • #14
                            I frequently use a women's bball and when you switch from shooting a men's ball to shooting a womens ball, the difference in size and weight is extremely noticeable. I understand mistakes happen, but at this level, this should not be happening.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DUBrave5 View Post
                              I frequently use a women's bball and when you switch from shooting a men's ball to shooting a womens ball, the difference in size and weight is extremely noticeable. I understand mistakes happen, but at this level, this should not be happening.
                              I have gotten confused before after randomly picking up a ball for the first time in awhile.

                              If I had shot around for and hour before the game....then grabbed a womens ball I would notice instantly.

                              If you shoot a men's then get handed a womens..the difference is clear.

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