The vicious cycle of not being elite

[srw]

Ladies and gents..I honestly didn't mean to start a flame war over the issue of talent..

I judge players this way. IMO a team needs 3 guys at this level that are not role players to win...

Examples:
Hawk Les Powell (Trimpe Jones Bertolini Thomas etc were all role players;not that they werent important..just not difference makers)

Hawk Manuel Jackson

Parker Jackson Bayo

Cellus Ruff Will

IMO the top three of this team do not measure up with those teams, and thats why its going to be difficult to do much...

The problem as a program IMO is we aren't elite anywhere....and its making it hard to achieve what I want.

Im not saying our players arent good, they just arent good enough

[BradleyBrave]

Ladies and gents..I honestly didn't mean to start a flame war over the issue of talent..

I judge players this way. IMO a team needs 3 guys at this level that are not role players to win...

Examples:
Hawk Les Powell (Trimpe Jones Bertolini Thomas etc were all role players;not that they werent important..just not difference makers)

Hawk Manuel Jackson

Parker Jackson Bayo

Cellus Ruff Will

IMO the top three of this team do not measure up with those teams, and thats why its going to be difficult to do much...

The problem as a program IMO is we aren't elite anywhere....and its making it hard to achieve what I want.

Im not saying our players arent good, they just arent good enough

Forgot POB.

But I hear what you're saying.

And you didn't start a flame war. I think you told the truth.

To that 'elite' end, I think Granger-Gilbert-Gillingham-Tucker could have been elite, which boggles my mind how that team went 9-20 in '02. I don't care how young they were, that team should have never gone 9-20. Ever. What a different world we'd live in had they not been 9-20.

[BradleyJD]

Would BU have enough with TB?

[Da Coach]

Would BU have enough with TB?

Maybe not enough for Duke or even Wichita State, but certainly enough to beat TCU and EIU, IMO.

[BradleyBrave]

Would BU have enough with TB?

I think that question is for srw, but I will say no. We didn't last year, and we're more or less the same team. If we were only one guy away, I don't think we'd be struggling to get to 60 every game, or losing to EIU at home.

[BU RICK]

Ladies and gents..I honestly didn't mean to start a flame war over the issue of talent..

I judge players this way. IMO a team needs 3 guys at this level that are not role players to win...

Examples:
Hawk Les Powell (Trimpe Jones Bertolini Thomas etc were all role players;not that they werent important..just not difference makers)

Hawk Manuel Jackson

Parker Jackson Bayo

Cellus Ruff Will

IMO the top three of this team do not measure up with those teams, and thats why its going to be difficult to do much...

The problem as a program IMO is we aren't elite anywhere....and its making it hard to achieve what I want.

Im not saying our players arent good, they just arent good enough

Allen Bowen Smith

Anderson Scott Reese

I see what you're saying... our big three are all guards

We need someone to step forward.

[BradleyBrave]

Maybe not enough for Duke or even Wichita State, but certainly enough to beat TCU and EIU, IMO.

I agree 100% here.

[srw]

Was it enough with TB.....

IMO it was enough to be 5-0 right now...

BUT...

The question is was it good enough to win the league.

I think this team needs a championship-eqsue team, and as one forum member says,

I think TB was too close to being a guard to really make this team a championship caliber....

[Bravesfan]

Forgot POB.

But I hear what you're saying.

And you didn't start a flame war. I think you told the truth.

To that 'elite' end, I think Granger-Gilbert-Gillingham-Tucker could have been elite, which boggles my mind how that team went 9-20 in '02. I don't care how young they were, that team should have never gone 9-20. Ever. What a different world we'd live in had they not been 9-20.

Yeah, that team in 2002 is what ultimately got Coach Mo fired. They scheduled tough, lost some close games and never recovered.

Garbage happens sometimes. How else do you explain this year's Dallas Cowboys as an example?

[thefish7]

I think TB could be an "elite" player... If AW keeps scoring 22+/g he probably counts. We all love SM and I think our season kinda hangs in the balance on his ankles, but I'm not sure I can call him elite or not (ducks salvo from amckillip )... Other than that, I think we have guys that are good players in our league, but not "elite."

If SM is going to struggle like he did vs. EIU, .500 would be a huge achievement, I think. If he's out .500 would be herculean.

Edit: Incidentally, I think DSE and WLJr, and maybe even JP could turn into something, but certainly aren't there yet.

[srw]

Yeah, that team in 2002 is what ultimately got Coach Mo fired. They scheduled tough, lost some close games and never recovered.

Garbage happens sometimes. How else do you explain this year's Dallas Cowboys as an example?

I would say that the team with dye and roberson winning 1 road game got mo fired....

it was just a cut that didnt bleed quickly

[srw]

On TB being elite..

He could be an elite 3 I believe...But the problem with this collection of players is its way to heavy on the guard end which forces him into the 4 role, egolf into the 5 etc.

[amettrick]

I would put a healthy SM into the top player category (unfortunately he's not healthy) and I would say TB is there too (too bad his career is in doubt). Warren looked like he was going to be, but his development was stalled by the bum foot and never restarted.

That's about it, nobody else on this team is in the category of being a difference maker. I do think Walt Lemon will be by his junior year though.

As for all this talk about being guard-heavy and TB being a better fit for the 3-spot. I just don't buy it. Several top-25 teams play with a similar lineup (3 guards, a 6-6/6-7 guy at the 4 and one big guy at center. The huge difference is the quality of the big man. We don't have a reliable low post guy and that makes all the difference (Not that any of that matters since TB is out anyway, just saying).

[MacabreMob]

Examples:

Cellus Ruff Will

Not a knock on Will, but I'd sub TB in his place during the 06 year. And yea - as BradleyBrave said, what about POB?

[MacabreMob]

To that 'elite' end, I think Granger-Gilbert-Gillingham-Tucker could have been elite, which boggles my mind how that team went 9-20 in '02.

Coaching style - just maybe.