Wessler: Nothing good about Bradleys loss...

[AZ BU Fan]

Mo had a stretch of a couple years 1999-2001 when he brought in some poor players, both athletically and academically/morally and it cost him big time since there was a limit on how many scholarships a school could offer in a given year. If I spent the time looking at rosters, I think he lost 5-6 players due to grades/off court behavior in a two year stretch over and above normal graduation rates. BU played short handed for a couple of years, even into the start of the JL era.

To give Mo credit, in his last year-two he signed/brought in some good talent like Faulknor, and some that left when JL replaced JM...Granger, Tisby, Tucker....

I do not buy into conspiracy theories re MVC pre/post season recognition awards, BU players have been absent in many of the categories vs other MVC Teams the past couple of years.

[amckillip]

Agreed that the NBA thing means nothing really. But I think you missed about a decade of BU hoops if you think it's JL hands down, because it isn't. One of the gripes with Mo (and there were many) was that we weren't fully utilizing a lot of talent that we had. Did you even watch BU closely back then?

But if it was JL 'hands down', why isn't our record better?

I don't actually believe it's hands-down JL, but I was responding to Wily who says it's hands down in favor of MO. I don't think it's hands down either way. But I'll definitely give the nod to JL.

AMC I have to agree with SRW on this one. I'm not saying we don't have any talent just not enough to compete for a Valley title year in and year out. In fact we haven't had enough the last nine years. So I'm not sure what your watching or if you know how to evaluate talent .I'm in SRWs corner on this one . Mo brought in alot better players then we've had the last nine years and look what that got him i.e.Parker ,Granger, Tucker,Grigsby etc. Two current NBA'ers and an all star.No question who is the better recruiter and we won't even go into coaching.

[jrish12]

Molinari: Billy Wright, Deon Jackson, Rob Dye, Danny Granger, Anthony Parker, Ed Cage, Phillip Gilbert(cant remember if MO recruited him or Les), Joah Tucker, Akinkule, Zobrist, Curtis Stuckey, etc.

Les: Daniel Ruffin, Jeremy Crouch, Zach Andrews, Boogie, Sam Maniscalco, Taylor Brown, POB, Will Franklin, Cellus(but not really, because he transfered from Iowa/SWIC so im not sure if you can count that as recruiting him and "getting him")

You guys be the judge, alot of you have followed Bradley Basketball longer than I have been alive. These are players from my lifetime

Which one got the most out of his players? I would say Mo wins this argument HANDS DOWN. The one stat that wins it for MO, IMO, is a conference championship. A Jim Les coached team has never finished higher than 4th in the league. They have almost identical records at this point in their careers at Bradley. The main difference being a championship, and I cant find anywhere what MO's Valley record was over that span, but I'm pretty sure it wasnt under .500.

[BradleyBrave]

I don't actually believe it's hands-down JL, but I was responding to Wily who says it's hands down in favor of MO. I don't think it's hands down either way. But I'll definitely give the nod to JL.

Fair enough. We will just agree to disagree on this one.

[Beninator]

Molinari: Billy Wright, Deon Jackson, Rob Dye, Danny Granger, Anthony Parker, Ed Cage, Phillip Gilbert(cant remember if MO recruited him or Les), Joah Tucker, Akinkule, Zobrist, Curtis Stuckey, etc.

Les: Daniel Ruffin, Jeremy Crouch, Zach Andrews, Boogie, Sam Maniscalco, Taylor Brown, POB, Will Franklin, Cellus(but not really, because he transfered from Iowa/SWIC so im not sure if you can count that as recruiting him and "getting him")

You guys be the judge, alot of you have followed Bradley Basketball longer than I have been alive. These are players from my lifetime

Which one got the most out of his players? I would say Mo wins this argument HANDS DOWN. The one stat that wins it for MO, IMO, is a conference championship. A Jim Les coached team has never finished higher than 4th in the league. They have almost identical records at this point in their careers at Bradley. The main difference being a championship, and I cant find anywhere what MO's Valley record was over that span, but I'm pretty sure it wasnt under .500.

Back to the old debate... When did MO win an NCAA tournament game while at BU

First Sweet 16 in 50 years for us. Advantage most decidedly JL

[Beninator]

I don't actually believe it's hands-down JL, but I was responding to Wily who says it's hands down in favor of MO. I don't think it's hands down either way. But I'll definitely give the nod to JL.

Yes there are a lot of similarities record wise between the two coaches. This is why I believe that BU must look inward to discover what they can do to improve themselves. The one constant is the BU institution which IMO is the root cause of the problem and in which I am afraid will continue to be the root problem as long as a certain person is where they presently are at this time.

[Chico]

I would call it a draw so far. We all want a MVC championship and we all want a Sweet 16. Would be nice to do both in the same season sometime. But I'll be a fan no matter who the coach is, always have, always will be.

[BradleyBrave]

First Sweet 16 in 50 years for us. Advantage most decidedly JL

By that logic, Jim Les is better than Dick Versace. That's laughable.

Two games don't make a career unfortunately. JL has had some great wins no doubt, but also some awful losses. People also forget some great wins that Coach Mo had. I don't get why people feel the need to throw that regime under the bus, especially people who didn't even watch BU play back then. While JL took us to a place that the Mo regime never got to, the Mo regime went places that JL has never come close to as well.

[amckillip]

I would call it a draw so far. We all want a MVC championship and we all want a Sweet 16. Would be nice to do both in the same season sometime. But I'll be a fan no matter who the coach is, always have, always will be.

Agree on all accounts here. If JL goes 9-20 as Mo did in '02 I suspect the result will be the same. Though I don't see anyway that happens, JL always has his team at least more competitive than that. To me that's why Mo got let go. Not because he didn't have success. But because at the time there wasn't much of anything to be hopeful for.

[Beninator]

By that logic, Jim Les is better than Dick Versace. That's laughable.

Two games don't make a career unfortunately. JL has had some great wins no doubt, but also some awful losses. People also forget some great wins that Coach Mo had. I don't get why people feel the need to throw that regime under the bus, especially people who didn't even watch BU play back then. While JL took us to a place that the Mo regime never got to, the Mo regime went places that JL has never come close to as well.

As you know, the comparison was only JL to MO not JL to other coaches in BU history. I also feel that people discount JL's 2 wins in the NCAA's. I like MO and feel that he did a lot to bring the program out of the ashes. However, MO was not a coach to take us higher than what he did. --I am not saying that JL is that coach, but I believe that there are a lot of people out there who give MO a lot more credit than he is due.

[SFP]

Let's not step back in time with MO or Vercase because what difference will it make tomorrow. JL has his work cut out this year no doubt, especially with a hurt SM and no TB. Let's not bash anyone here because the body of work against EIU speaks volume.

[Bravesfan]

Molinari: Billy Wright, Deon Jackson, Rob Dye, Danny Granger, Anthony Parker, Ed Cage, Phillip Gilbert(cant remember if MO recruited him or Les), Joah Tucker, Akinkule, Zobrist, Curtis Stuckey, etc.

Les: Daniel Ruffin, Jeremy Crouch, Zach Andrews, Boogie, Sam Maniscalco, Taylor Brown, POB, Will Franklin, Cellus(but not really, because he transfered from Iowa/SWIC so im not sure if you can count that as recruiting him and "getting him")

You guys be the judge, alot of you have followed Bradley Basketball longer than I have been alive. These are players from my lifetime

Which one got the most out of his players? I would say Mo wins this argument HANDS DOWN. The one stat that wins it for MO, IMO, is a conference championship. A Jim Les coached team has never finished higher than 4th in the league. They have almost identical records at this point in their careers at Bradley. The main difference being a championship, and I cant find anywhere what MO's Valley record was over that span, but I'm pretty sure it wasnt under .500.

I have to respectively disagree here for one reason. A Sweet 16 appearance by Jim Les. Sure they finished tied for 5th in 2006, but the Valley was so strong that year that finishing tied for 5th was almost as good as finishing in the top 2. He then got his team to play up to their potential, and the rest as they say is history.

I do agree that Coach Mo has more NIT appearances than BU, but the NIT was different animal in the 90's, with teams that drew good crowds getting the edge over better teams without the support.

I mean I understand that aside from one conference championship for Coach Mo and one Sweet 16 run for Les that there isn't much else to separate them. But again, this is why I have always said let's see what Les can do with a veteran team, even in his 9th season after a couple of mediocre seasons. This was before the TB situation came to be, but I still think we have a veteran enough team to offset disasters like we had the other night. I don't like the way this team is trending right now, TB or no TB, but I still will wait and see how the rest of the non-conference slate plays out. I do know one thing though. We definitely have our work cut out for us!

[BradleyBrave]

As you know, the comparison was only JL to MO not JL to other coaches in BU history. I also feel that people discount JL's 2 wins in the NCAA's. I like MO and feel that he did a lot to bring the program out of the ashes. However, MO was not a coach to take us higher than what he did. --I am not saying that JL is that coach, but I believe that there are a lot of people out there who give MO a lot more credit than he is due.

JL gets plenty of credit for those two wins. It's the primary reason he still has a job. If anything he gets too much credit for them, as they have generally masked the lack of progress the program has made during his tenure.

I don't know who is giving Mo more credit than he deserves. All you read about on here is how his players stunk, how his 11 years were awful, and how much worse the MVC was back then. Mo made us a perennial MVC contender. What has JL made us?

I'm by no means a Mo apologist; in fact I wanted a change at the time a change was made. I had no idea how a team with that much talent could lose 20 games, regardless of how young it was. But I will at least give the guy credit for what he did at BU and the success he had. I don't understand why so many on here don't want to do that. The W-L record, like JL's, speaks for itself.

[BradleyBrave]

I do agree that Coach Mo has more NIT appearances than BU, but the NIT was different animal in the 90's, with teams that drew good crowds getting the edge over better teams without the support.

So now we're discrediting the NIT appearances? Come on.

I mean I understand that aside from one conference championship for Coach Mo and one Sweet 16 run for Les that there isn't much else to separate them. But again, this is why I have always said let's see what Les can do with a veteran team, even in his 9th season after a couple of mediocre seasons. This was before the TB situation came to be, but I still think we have a veteran enough team to offset disasters like we had the other night. I don't like the way this team is trending right now, TB or no TB, but I still will wait and see how the rest of the non-conference slate plays out. I do know one thing though. We definitely have our work cut out for us!

Performance in league play and in St. Louis separates them by quite a bit. I don't get why people discredit the importance of performance in conference so much.

[amckillip]

So now we're discrediting the NIT appearances? Come on.

Agreed that's ridiculous.

Performance in league play and in St. Louis separates them by quite a bit. I don't get why people discredit the importance of performance in conference so much.

I would ask what Mo's conference records were towards the end of his tenure. I do not expect JL to be near that low. 6 conference wins in any season, especially one with only 3 non-con wins is not going to help your case if your Mo. Like I said, I think they are comparable. I'll give the nod to JL for avoiding seasons that bad, but I don't want to speak too soon...