Osiris Eldridge going in the 2nd round of the draft?

[tornado]

this is not true...
ISU beat us twice this year, but in each of the preceding two years we held our own with them and even outplayed them...
and over a THREE year span before that........from the 2nd half of the 2004-2005 season thru the latter half of the 2007-2008 we beat them every time we played them..
SIX times in a row......and trust me....

OE is lucky to escape his 4-year MVC career with a .500 (4-4) record vs. Bradley

[houstontxbrave]

Osiris scored 1838 points on 1547 shots while at ISU...(1.188 pts/shot, and 0.84 shots required per point scored)

but just for the sake of argument, let's compare him to Sammy Maniscalco and Andrew Warren who have completed only 3 years at BU - and we'll take OE's 3-year numbers... 1325 points on 1115 shots (1.188 pts/shot, and 0.84 shots required per point scored)

Here's what our guys have...
Sammy 1152 pts on 835 shots (1.380 pts/shot and and 0.72 shots required per point scored)
Andrew 1019 pts on 755 shots (1.35 pts/shot and and 0.74 shots required per point scored)

Thus it is overwhelmingly clear that OE's efficiency is way less than many players,
and he gets his impressive point totals from the sheer volume of shots launched.

Just as a last stat...here are the career scoring numbers that I project Sammy and Andrew - two of OE's contemporaries - who over their careers have played FAR superrior talent and opponents, would have if they launched the same number of shots in their careers as King O...

Sammy - 2135
Andrew - 2088
both numbers would place Sammy & Andrew in 3rd place overall in career scoring at BRADLEY ...
BUT...both figures would place our guys breathing right down Doug Collins' neck as ISU's All Time leading scorer....(Collins had 2240, nobody else at ISU had more than 1962, and nobody had more than 1736 since ISU has actually been playing as a real Division I big school against D-I opponents.

So I agree that Osiris Eldridge is among ISU's all time best, and no doubt he'd have been a good player had he been at Bradley as well...but I am NOT convinced he is better than a couple guys we have on our roster right now!!

Ok I am going to bite on this. Your really just looking at the fact OE shot a lot and if SM or Warren got to shoot that much they would be near what Collins did at ISU.

I am going to grant to you OE shot a lot both from 3 and from the field and his overall %'s are not very good.

But I like to look at a guy overall not just shots taken, made or missed. Players who shoot a lot tend to miss a lot, but regardless.

He had for a career

681 rebounds - 5.1 per game
83 assist - 2.04 per game
181 steals - 1.36 per game
298-397 from the free throw line - 75%
Started 112 of a possible 133 with 3 missed starts after his Freshman season.

10 - all defensive team and most outstanding defensive player

09 - all mvc tourney & most outstanding player
1st team all conference and defensive team

08 1st team all conference and runner up for mvp

07 freshman of the year.

I have a feeling if a graduating BU player put up both the numbers and recognitions that OE did in his career, you would be leading the charge on how magical his career at BU was. I have read you alot on here and you do make a lot of very valid arguements but in this situation his game, numbers and career speak for themselves. He would have been if in a Bradley uniform considered one of the best to have ever put one on.

[SFP]

There is no argument from me that OE was a real good MVC player but is he NBA ready, is the question. What I have seen from him probably not. Hey POB was not ready and some probably say he still is not ready. The NBA is just a different beast and only the best who have the drive can make it. I just never saw that drive from him and at his size there is just a ton of talent that he'll have to over come. In reality how many Valley players ever make it to the NBA. Very few do and those are the very special players.

[tornado]

and I acknowledged that but it is a pretty foregone conclusion that King O did not improve much from his sophomore season onward towards his senior season and at times his play and his ballhogging and shot hogging cost them...

The only real BCS-opponent/quality game they played in the last 75% of King O's career was the NIT game against K-State, where Osiris hogged all the shots for the cameras, missed 17 of 23, and hurt them badly in OT...
I have documented elsewhere that in the final 3 minutes of games plus OT's (when it matters...) OE's shooting pct was way under 20%..

http://www.bradleyfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=166295&postcount=25

[houstontxbrave]

and I acknowledged that but it is a pretty foregone conclusion that King O did not improve much from his sophomore season onward towards his senior season and at times his play and his ballhogging and shot hogging cost them...

The only real BCS-opponent/quality game they played in the last 75% of King O's career was the NIT game against K-State, where Osiris hogged all the shots for the cameras, missed 17 of 23, and hurt them badly in OT...
I have documented elsewhere that in the final 3 minutes of games plus OT's (when it matters...) OE's shooting pct was way under 20%..
http://www.bradleyfans.com/vb/showpo...5&postcount=25

I am just stratching my head now, if he did NOT improve much from his sophomore season to his senior season then why in the world did he get voted to 2 defensive all valley teams, 2 all valley conference teams, 2 first team all conference selections and was the voted overall best defender in the Valley in that same Sophomore to Senior seasons?

Please put aside the shooting in certain games or even overall and look at the body of work from baseline to baseline.

After everything I quoted for his career you still want to use shots, missed shots and % in the last minutes of a game as reasons to argue his career. The man put up extremely good numbers in his basketball career. Yes ISU did not always play big time competition but that is not got anything to do with OE. You play who you are dealt.

And my opinion, games are 40 minutes long and what happens at the 14 minute mark in the first is as important as what occurs with 2 minutes left. You take bad shots at the 14 minute mark can be just as hurtful as something deeper in the game. The ones in the last minutes are just more maginfied.

[tornado]

if we just look at a player and form a subjective opinion as you seem to want...then it's like deciding what movie is best when I like one but you like another...it is purely subjective and then there's no reason to even have a debate because we're each entitled to our opinions of which one is best..

BUT - I am offering precise, well researched and easily provable OBJECTIVE info on the guy and now,
you say let's just cast all that out and use our biases??

unless you mean something else by "BODY OF WORK", then I will cite this...
Soph -- 15.83 ppg, 5.69 rpg, 43.2% shooting, 39% from 3pt. - led his team to NIT against a weak set of opponents
Junior - 14.00 ppg, 6.18 rpg, 40.4% shooting, 35% from 3pt. - led his team to NIT against a weak set of opponents
Senior - 15.55 ppg, 4.03 rpg, 40.0% shooting, 35% from 3pt. - led his team to NIT against an even weaker set of opponents
...then also, assists, steals, and blocks are also all consistent within a couple tenths of a digit so they didn't vary much in any of those seasons either..and there just isn't a single statistical thing that more than a thread better as a senior that it was as a sophomore...plus I have been told many times even by ISU fans that they were disappointed by OE's lack of development and improvement as his career went on...
In fact you could almost make the opposite argument easier, that his shooting, rebounding, and other production actually went DOWN as a senior....maybe he got worse??

So -- if you say he got better from his sophomore season to his senior season...then give me just ONE piece of evidence, other than just a warm & fuzzy feeling way down inside that you feel it is true??
Just one...what did he do better as a senior than he did as a sophomore or junior?

[Nacho]

where Osiris hogged all the shots for the cameras

O had a terrible game... no arguing that... but the game was not on TV... or the internet...ANYWHERE... just an FYI about your "camera" comment

[tornado]

Here are two entire photo galleries of pictures from that game (and there's another one on the K-State site)..
...don't tell me there were no cameras...

http://www.goredbirds.com/view.gal?id=44856

http://www.goredbirds.com/view.gal?id=44857

[shaunguth]

And yet the past couple years they kicked our rears and we finished behind them in the MVC.....hmmmmm whats the problem? Coaching.....recruiting.....dumb luck?

First of all, I'd say they "kicked our rears" once in king o's four years at isu, but here are the numbers from the past couple years.....

1-31-09 @ isu (isu wins by 4)


1-30-10 @ isu (isu wins by 19)


2-9-10 @ BU (isu wins by 1)


king o's averages in the three isu wins.....

33 minutes

11 points

2 rebounds

1.7 assists

1.7 turnovers

0.7 steals

Better look somewhere other than king o!

[Future Walk-On]

First of all, I'd say they "kicked our rears" once in king o's four years at isu, but here are the numbers from the past couple years.....

1-31-09 @ isu (isu wins by 4)


1-30-10 @ isu (isu wins by 19)


2-9-10 @ BU (isu wins by 1)


king o's averages in the three isu wins.....

33 minutes

11 points

2 rebounds

1.7 assists

1.7 turnovers

0.7 steals

Better look somewhere other than king o!

Dinma?

[mtxe79]

Osiris scored 1838 points on 1547 shots while at ISU...(1.188 pts/shot, and 0.84 shots required per point scored)

but just for the sake of argument, let's compare him to Sammy Maniscalco and Andrew Warren who have completed only 3 years at BU - and we'll take OE's 3-year numbers... 1325 points on 1115 shots (1.188 pts/shot, and 0.84 shots required per point scored)

Here's what our guys have...
Sammy 1152 pts on 835 shots (1.380 pts/shot and and 0.72 shots required per point scored)
Andrew 1019 pts on 755 shots (1.35 pts/shot and and 0.74 shots required per point scored)

Thus it is overwhelmingly clear that OE's efficiency is way less than many players,
and he gets his impressive point totals from the sheer volume of shots launched.

Just as a last stat...here are the career scoring numbers that I project Sammy and Andrew - two of OE's contemporaries - who over their careers have played FAR superrior talent and opponents, would have if they launched the same number of shots in their careers as King O...

Sammy - 2135
Andrew - 2088
both numbers would place Sammy & Andrew in 3rd place overall in career scoring at BRADLEY ...
BUT...both figures would place our guys breathing right down Doug Collins' neck as ISU's All Time leading scorer....(Collins had 2240, nobody else at ISU had more than 1962, and nobody had more than 1736 since ISU has actually been playing as a real Division I big school against D-I opponents.

So I agree that Osiris Eldridge is among ISU's all time best, and no doubt he'd have been a good player had he been at Bradley as well...but I am NOT convinced he is better than a couple guys we have on our roster right now!!

And people have laughed at me over the years for saying Steve Kerr would be the Bulls all time leading scorer if he would have taken as many shots as that ball hogging Jordan. I can use your logic to prove my point.

[tornado]

Basically you have given a perfect example to fortify my exact point, thank you.....
if you can't see the difference, then there's no use bothering to explain...
Steve Kerr was a situational piece of the offense...he only shot when the offense called for him to shoot...and when he did what he did best, his contribution led to the Bulls being a dominating team capable of winning championships...

Had OE likewise shot when he had his best opportunity and let the other parts of the offense have their shots...then ISU may well have been a better team..
One thing that DOES stand out in those stats...and the only thing that puts OE even on the first page of any stat nationally is shot attempts and 3pt shot attempts

[SFP]

T are you trying to say that OE was just an average over hyped player?

Maybe we can ask JL during his next Q&A what he thought it was like to prepare against him.

[tornado]

good - but talent in the realm of JC, AW, P'Allen, Josh Young, & others.....
athletically, could have been better but for the tendency to wild and bad shots and solo play
The best games the past few years for ISU came when Dinma led them, not OE

[Braves4Life]

good - but talent in the realm of JC, AW, P'Allen, Josh Young, & others.....
athletically, could have been better but for the tendency to wild and bad shots and solo play
The best games the past few years for ISU came when Dinma led them, not OE

Can't disagree with ya there tornado. But the NBA only cares about talent and when OE knows he is not the best player on the team (and most likely 10th-12th best) he has a shot to play "within himself". I could see him having the potential to be a terrific "lockdown" defender amd spot substitute at the next level with the right team.