Conference Realignment

[houstontxbrave]

If I'm a guessing man I'd have to pick MSU. They have a substantial alum who is willing to shell out the dollars and that is what it will take. Unfortunately the way the economy is very few schools can make that leap right now. That is why it is a great time to make a plan based on basketball only schools as a contingency. It has a much better chance of making a cut now then it will 4-5 years from now. Then it needs to establish its brand of superior basketball play that competes with any league.

That means the Valley has to make a decision. Go basketball only as the main sport and essentially boot the football playing schools, or expand with the football playing schools and wait and see if one or any of the football school blink and try to move into a bigger football playing environment. But please dont sit and wait and only react when a reaction is required.

Keep an eye on what happens with the Sunbelt and CUSA regarding football. I think how they are affected by realignment will directly effect the Valley schools.

And I agree MSU is likely the barometer regarding football upgrading.

[thefish7]

Houston-- if only potential mattered then Detroit Mercy would be a big deal. Actual interest and ratings are going to be important in any marketing effort.

Also I don't think the presence of a football program at drake makes that program more attractive than Bradley. Or that isu's football program makes that school more attractive than WSU or or Creighton.

[SFP]

Houston-- if only potential mattered then Detroit Mercy would be a big deal. Actual interest and ratings are going to be important in any marketing effort.

Also I don't think the presence of a football program at drake makes that program more attractive than Bradley. Or that isu's football program makes that school more attractive than WSU or or Creighton.

To be fair I do not think Houston was going there with the Detroit Mercy type of school. He was pointing out some Big East schools. I do believe that the ability to create an exclusive brand for a basketball only league will be tantamount for its survival regardless. Like it or not Bradley has a great regional brand but not much in the way of a national brand. We will need to piggy back off of the Butlers and Xavier if we are to join this league like it or not. That is reality 2010! I would also hope that Marquette and DePaul would be part of the equation.

[squirrelgotdead]

That means the Valley has to make a decision. Go basketball only as the main sport and essentially boot the football playing schools, or expand with the football playing schools and wait and see if one or any of the football school blink and try to move into a bigger football playing environment. But please dont sit and wait and only react when a reaction is required.

Keep an eye on what happens with the Sunbelt and CUSA regarding football. I think how they are affected by realignment will directly effect the Valley schools.

And I agree MSU is likely the barometer regarding football upgrading.

Technically, the MVC as far as basketball is concerned has not sponsored football since 1985 (I think or thereabouts). The MVC football conference is a completely separate entity and is simply a re-branded Gateway and the MVC gave the league permission a couple years ago to use their name and likeness but maintains its own organization. However, that move was clearly done in anticipation of some of these changes on the horizon.

[thefish7]

Technically, the MVC as far as basketball is concerned has not sponsored football since 1985 (I think or thereabouts). The MVC football conference is a completely separate entity and is simply a re-branded Gateway and the MVC gave the league permission a couple years ago to use their name and likeness but maintains its own organization. However, that move was clearly done in anticipation of some of these changes on the horizon.

That's also how I interpreted that name change. It's also a little bit of the moment I decided that Bradley needs to start considering other conference possibilities if it is impossible to add a football program (which I believe it is).

[thefish7]

To be fair I do not think Houston was going there with the Detroit Mercy type of school. He was pointing out some Big East schools. I do believe that the ability to create an exclusive brand for a basketball only league will be tantamount for its survival regardless. Like it or not Bradley has a great regional brand but not much in the way of a national brand. We will need to piggy back off of the Butlers and Xavier if we are to join this league like it or not. That is reality 2010! I would also hope that Marquette and DePaul would be part of the equation.

I'm sure he wasn't considering Detroit Mercy, but he was suggesting in absolute terms that only potential viewers matter so I was offering a case that clearly refutes that idea. All I'm really tryin to get across is that in raw dollars a program has to offer I think BU isn't the little player some of us are making it out to be, and the reason I believe that is because we're better supported than many better known schools. The thing is, if I were forming a conference I'd be interested in the money not the name.

Butler is an interesting case, btw. Before this year Bradley was absolutely a "bigger" progra
and Butler actually provides the more reasonable argument than Detroit or St Johns... Indianapolis is a clearly larger market than Peoria but Bradley draws more fans and I'm sure garnered better TV ratings. It'll be interesting to see if the national championship appearance will result in significantly higher interest in Indy or not-- I think it will but time will tell.

[Indy_BB]

Butler is an interesting case, btw. Before this year Bradley was absolutely a "bigger" program.

You might be the only person in the country to believe that, but go with it.

Bradley has three NCAA Tournament wins since 1955. Butler has three Sweet 16s since 2003 (one, of course, being a national runner-up)

I don't mean any offense, but the programs arent, in any reasonable way, comparable (and that isnt a slight in any way)

Most times in the AP Poll since 2000-2001 (10 seasons)

Most times in the AP Poll since 2005-2006 (5 seasons)

[tornado]

..but the programs arent, in any reasonable way, comparable ..

then tell the local writer to stop -- the one who has been comparing the programs in several columns.......

[Indy_BB]

It happens. People say things that do not make any sense.

Trey Ziegler cited this year's Final Four as a "reason" he opted to play for his dad at Central Michigan. Which makes as much sense as saying that Duke winning the national championship indicates some sort of future for Auburn.

[squirrelgotdead]

You might be the only person in the country to believe that, but go with it.

Bradley has three NCAA Tournament wins since 1955. Butler has three Sweet 16s since 2003 (one, of course, being a national runner-up)

I don't mean any offense, but the programs arent, in any reasonable way, comparable (and that isnt a slight in any way)

Most times in the AP Poll since 2000-2001 (10 seasons)

Most times in the AP Poll since 2005-2006 (5 seasons)

I don't think that statement is that far off base. The difference is Bradley was definitively the more recognizable basketball presence from 1940-late 1990's. . .so you have 50+ years of national recognition of being a basketball school if you're Bradley. The problem is that those people are becoming fewer rapidly. This decade has firmly cemented Butler ahead of Bradley in name and hoops recognition. Now that they broke through in an even bigger way by going toe-to-toe with Duke in the National Championship game, that may be irreversible.

[thefish7]

You might be the only person in the country to believe that, but go with it.

Bradley has three NCAA Tournament wins since 1955. Butler has three Sweet 16s since 2003 (one, of course, being a national runner-up)

I don't mean any offense, but the programs arent, in any reasonable way, comparable (and that isnt a slight in any way)

Most times in the AP Poll since 2000-2001 (10 seasons)

Most times in the AP Poll since 2005-2006 (5 seasons)

Sorry-- you missed my point. Butler is absolutely the better program! It's the program I think Bradley should aspire to. What I meant was, Bradley has been better supported and
until now has probably been bigger budget/bigger revenue-- excluding NCAA payouts.

[houstontxbrave]

I'm sure he wasn't considering Detroit Mercy, but he was suggesting in absolute terms that only potential viewers matter so I was offering a case that clearly refutes that idea. All I'm really tryin to get across is that in raw dollars a program has to offer I think BU isn't the little player some of us are making it out to be, and the reason I believe that is because we're better supported than many better known schools. The thing is, if I were forming a conference I'd be interested in the money not the name.

Butler is an interesting case, btw. Before this year Bradley was absolutely a "bigger" progra
and Butler actually provides the more reasonable argument than Detroit or St Johns... Indianapolis is a clearly larger market than Peoria but Bradley draws more fans and I'm sure garnered better TV ratings. It'll be interesting to see if the national championship appearance will result in significantly higher interest in Indy or not-- I think it will but time will tell.

My point was that the schools on the East Coast in the NYC area have a higher potential for potential viewers and that is extremely attractive when it comes to schools and a basketball only conference and for television deals.

If I have the ability to get my product infront of 2million people potentially versus 750K, I want the potential of 2m v 750K. Even if the real numbers are not that high there is still that potential.

Detroit is a good example as is DePaul or even Marquette but the potential eye balls in those markets is X, in the case of for example St Johns the potential eye balls is X + many many more simply because there are so many more people in the Northeast.

You never know Detroit might be attractive to a conference simply because of the size of Detroit, but those eyes in Detroit would compete with eyes wanting to see MSU and Michigan.

Bradley is a very well known school, has a nice attendance and history but the fact is the number of potential viewers of Bradley basketball simply because of location is significantly lower then example, Creighton, Butler, WSU. There just are not enough people in Central Illinois to justify bringing BU in just because it sells out its home games.

Heck if it were a money maker all BU games would be carried live on local television. I suspect ad revenue is difficult to obtain and retain for broadcasting Bradley games. There just are not an overall lot of people in this world interested in watching Bradley basketball compared to the number of potential viewers of a St Johns game.

[squirrelgotdead]

You're both right to an extent. And a lot of it depends on # teams in a particular market vs. market size as well.

Part of the reason Rutgers is in B10 talks is because of the NY/NJ market. Despite the fact that they have not been competitive generally in anything for 20-30 years (except the last couple years in football) they are THE primary public institution in that 2-state region. Syracuse dominates the market in basketball. When they win in football they bring audience. But the thing is there is a vast hole for college football in that market area. This is also why UConn's name has surfaced. UConn has exhibited tremendous growth potential as well in both football and basketball.

So once someone in that market wins that market pays of greatly.

In Michigan you have a smaller market that is already dominated by Michigan and its ugly step sister (until the last 10 or so years in basketball) Michigan State.

[thefish7]

Yeah, market potential is a major factor (and a limiting factor for Bradley)... I just don't believe it's the only factor.

[TheAsianSensation]

What is ultimately going to be the doom of Peoria is everyone around them. Marquette and DePaul a few hours north, St Louis a few hours southwest, Indianapolis a few hours east. If someone wants to add one of those markets...then why add the Peoria market? Doesn't make sense economically.

And this actually helps Creighton and Wichita. They're the mid-major programs of note in Nebraska and Kansas. They're in an untapped area.

Geography is most likely going to be the cause of doom of any major shift.