Conference Realignment

[squirrelgotdead]

Um, if these schools break away from the NCAA for the revenue sports, what's to stop the NCAA from giving the BCS schools the middle finger and just kicking them out of all sports? In fact, I'd expect it.

Possibly. But the other thing they will realize is their very existence could be on the line. The NCAA will still have football and basketball for those remaining. However, where the NCAA can still be relevant is in emerging sports (soccer, lacrosse) whose markets are growing rapidly and they will likely be the only home for big name schools to participate in some sports.

And if the NCAA gives them the cold shoulder then. . .they'll just go off and create their own organization and take a good number of NCAA schools (maybe even NAIA too) with them.

[TheAsianSensation]

Possibly. But the other thing they will realize is their very existence could be on the line. The NCAA will still have football and basketball for those remaining. However, where the NCAA can still be relevant is in emerging sports (soccer, lacrosse) whose markets are growing rapidly and they will likely be the only home for big name schools to participate in some sports.

And if the NCAA gives them the cold shoulder then. . .they'll just go off and create their own organization and take a good number of NCAA schools (maybe even NAIA too) with them.

Yea, but would they take, say, Johns Hopkins for lacrosse only and refuse them the other sports? What about the Ivy League schools?

It could get very messy when you have a breakup like this and have some teams play under the NCAA and other teams not so. To have some schools in some sports....it's just too messy. I expect a clean break. If you try to keep your ties in other sports, you risk yourself to having to follow the rules of both organizations.

It's gotta be all or nothing. They can't do a middle ground. There will be mass confusion otherwise.

[squirrelgotdead]

I actually think this is the best answer for professional sports other than the NFL. Might work okay in college too, but it would take some (or all) of the fun of the tourney away.

It's a nice thought, but how in the world would you ever begin to implement it?

It really is an ingenious system for one primary reason: Every game literally means something. Even if you are the last place team, you are fighting to avoid being relegated. However, if you can't compete, being relegated at least gives you the opportunity to do earn your stripes at a lower level.

And in many leagues they have inter-divisional playoffs to determine promotion/relegation where top teams from the lower division square off against weaker teams from the higher division and so it's great for competition on all ends of the spectrum.

[tornado]

Nebraska University Chancellor speaks about leaving Big 12 and joining Big Ten..
(he says no specifics are in the works..but.......he's talking...)


???You don't know that for sure," (Harvey) Perlman said. ???There could be some
advantage to joining the Big Ten depending on what the deal is....

???My instinct and Tom's instinct (Nebraska AD Tom Osborne) isn't just to sit
around and wait to see what bad things happen to you," the chancellor
said. ???We're certainly talking about what options we have."

The Big Ten..(has) ..publicly stated they are studying expansion or are open
to it.

.. are we in the swirl of things? Yes," he said. ???By the product of our
location, we could be vulnerable if there is significant change in conference
realignment."

Perlman said he wants the Big 12 to succeed. But that doesn't mean a move
by Nebraska to any other power conference has been ruled out.

???I don't think anyone can dismiss anything ...we certainly have to act in the
interest of Nebraska."

This is all about money, isn't it?

The Big Ten pays its members $22 million a year. The Big 12 pays between
about $7 million and $11 million. Wouldn't Nebraska be crazy to turn down an
invitation to the Big Ten for double the yearly revenue?"

[SFP]

That means you can expect Colorado to move with them along with the Utah schools. How about if Texas and Oklahoma goes with them?

[thefish7]

As for your steps, I think this is the one I don't quite agree with. I think the likes of G'town, Nova, Provi, SHU, and St John's would rather stick with Marquette and DePaul and nab the Ohio schools (Xavier, Dayton) and a couple others rather than nabbing, say, VCU. Plus, with G'town, they won't take ODU because they infringe on their market. Technically St Joe's infringes on Nova's too.

And most importantly, the Big East castoffs will realize that if they don't purge the A-10 harder, the A-10 can do exactly what you described in step 6 and be on par with the conference formed in step 5. They don't want to be on par. They want to be the best of the best.

That's a good point there. Do you think the steps are a bit more "realistic" if G'Town/Nova went to FBS?

[thefish7]

It's a nice thought, but how in the world would you ever begin to implement it?

It really is an ingenious system for one primary reason: Every game literally means something. Even if you are the last place team, you are fighting to avoid being relegated. However, if you can't compete, being relegated at least gives you the opportunity to do earn your stripes at a lower level.

And in many leagues they have inter-divisional playoffs to determine promotion/relegation where top teams from the lower division square off against weaker teams from the higher division and so it's great for competition on all ends of the spectrum.

Yeah, you have the reason for wanting to do it right. In the UK a pub-team could, over the years, become a Premier League team. It's even happened once with a club called Wimbledon FC, who went from the lowest tier in 1977 to the Premier League in 1986. Every team is always playing for something.

I think with Baseball you could define it as a goal and implement with something like a 5-year plan. You already have the infrastructure with the minor leagues, but you need to transition to a state where the major league clubs eliminate their affiliations with them and where all players end up contracted to the team they're playing on. You'd also need a max-roster size. I'm a huge baseball fan, but don't particularly enjoy Peoria Chiefs games because they're not playing to win... After such a change they'd be playing to advance to the next level.

Pro Basketball could also state it as a goal and solicit d-league teams and minor league teams to accomplish something similar. They could also work to capture regional leagues (semi-pros or amateurs included) And work out stratification as it becomes reasonable necessary.

College basketball would be weirder, but I think, doable. You'd just define a conference size and have promotion-relegation based on regular season results. You'd replace the tournament with something like the FA Cup. I think a more realistic, though maybe unpalatable, idea (which would represent the end of amateur basketball) would be to roll the NCAA teams up into a promo-relegation system with the pros. So, the Bradley Braves would just become a pro team competing in the same multi-league tiered format.

With the NFL, I don't think it makes any sense at all, though.

[TheAsianSensation]

That's a good point there. Do you think the steps are a bit more "realistic" if G'Town/Nova went to FBS?

That would leave Provi, Seton Hall, and St John's. I think they'd want to stick with Marquette and DePaul in that scenario, and therefore pick up other schools like Butler/Xavier/Dayton/etc. I think whoever is left is going to want to stay loyal to Marquette and DePaul, to be honest.

[SFP]

Villanova perhaps but I just do not see G'town putting money into a football team. That is probably our biggest hope that there will be 1, 2 or 3 non-football conferences or BCS programs in a super basketball league. I just do not see the real upside in basketball of creating a super 64 team collee league. It would be no difference then the NBA doin it. It will take the pleasure out of a vast majority of fans of followin the sport and thus killing it.

[squirrelgotdead]

The question on Villanova will always be "will Philly support it?"

There a numerous reasons why they haven't yet, not the least of which is Philly has never really supported college football, much less bad college football.

The school has periodically reviewed the possibility. But the risks have always remained the same and the studies repeatedly produce results that are unsavory.

It would be an interesting case. . .you really can not afford to not make the move this time around. But that doesn't change the fact they won't have an adequate facility, little to no fan support and poor attendance. And they will be forced to share an indifferent market with another football program (Temple) that in a very good year is mediocre. Temple would likely have stadium priority as well.

[thefish7]

That would leave Provi, Seton Hall, and St John's. I think they'd want to stick with Marquette and DePaul in that scenario, and therefore pick up other schools like Butler/Xavier/Dayton/etc. I think whoever is left is going to want to stay loyal to Marquette and DePaul, to be honest.

I kind of agree, I guess I'm openly asking the question as to if those three schools are "worth more" than Creighton, WSU, Bradley. I kind of think the geography involved gives you "as good" revenue, with slightly lower travel expenses, and in a market with "less competition." Meaning that I basically think that a midwestern basketball-only power conference that was creative really could get a lucrative deal from Comcast, who wants to get some back from the BTN... And that Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, SLU, Bradley, Creighton, WSU, and maybe one other school could be a "better package" than Providence, Seton Hall, and St. John's.

[TheAsianSensation]

I kind of agree, I guess I'm openly asking the question as to if those three schools are "worth more" than Creighton, WSU, Bradley. I kind of think the geography involved gives you "as good" revenue, with slightly lower travel expenses, and in a market with "less competition." Meaning that I basically think that a midwestern basketball-only power conference that was creative really could get a lucrative deal from Comcast, who wants to get some back from the BTN... And that Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, SLU, Bradley, Creighton, WSU, and maybe one other school could be a "better package" than Providence, Seton Hall, and St. John's.

They are, I think.

Creighton, WSU, Bradley can end up with, say, St Louis, Xavier, Dayton, Butler, Marquette, DePaul if one thing happens: All those schools split first and persuade each other to form up. Unfortunately, the Big East split is inevitable and will most definitely happen first, and that will mean the Big East buddies will team up. I don't think Marquette or DePaul would walk away from the rest.

[thefish7]

Yeah I can fully agree with that. I really believe that Bradley for example should be making calls and be out there agitating. I think the ideal situation for Bradley is that the foundation of that conference is the reason for the big east split.

[SFP]

And that Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, SLU, Bradley, Creighton, WSU, and maybe one other school could be a "better package" than Providence, Seton Hall, and St. John's.

You have 9 schools against 3 so of course but St. John has more potential then any school you listed to bring in TV revenues. NY is the number 1 TV market in the US by a wide margin.

[TheAsianSensation]

We'll see. The key is going to be once the Big East split happens. The likes of BU, Creighton, and WSU (and probably Butler too) will have to act immediately. Like, within hours. Of course, you risk straining MVC relations with everyone else.