Mascot change for BU considered again

[Da Coach]

You kind of need to remember that for some Native Americans, what is there to be proud of?

Casinos and $$$$$

[ChewaBrave]

haha, I suppose there is always that. Sad day when that is what your culture has been reduced too.

[thefish7]

On a more personal note, my father and uncles were all Alumni of Notre Dame, and I always kind of wondered why no one ever brought up "The fighting Irish", with the something of a bar brawl mentality it could bring up.

As a red headed Irish American I can say I'm deeply offended. Oh wait, no I'm not. It does me no harm and reflects some stereotypes I already mock myself for. It's a muddy issue for sure, and while there are cases that are clearly wrong (Washington Redskins), the issue itself has been pushed well beyond any reasonable level and represent out of control PCness and all of the tyranny that gets you. The ND logo as is portraying a very stereotyped redheaded Irishman looking for a fight is fine by me... The same logo incorporating a bottle of whiskey would OTOH be over the line. The thing is that the history of many of these Indian related mascots is that they WERE mocking even if they fall into the honoring bucket in todays environment. My issue with that is if perceptions and intents of these mascots haw changed then why is the history of the mascot relevant?

[SFP]

Casinos and $$$$$

I grew up with a family that were direct descendants of "Sitting Bull", and were very proud of their ancestral past. To say that casinos and $$$$$ is what is to be proud of is dismissing a group, only through the eyes of discriminatory western centric eyes. There are area in which we all need to be sensitive about. I for one find the Native American's balance approach of nature quite advanced compared to today's view of raping our planet of all resources at any cost.

[ChewaBrave]

As a red headed Irish American I can say I'm deeply offended. Oh wait, no I'm not. It does me no harm and reflects some stereotypes I already mock myself for. It's a muddy issue for sure, and while there are cases that are clearly wrong (Washington Redskins), the issue itself has been pushed well beyond any reasonable level and represent out of control PCness and all of the tyranny that gets you. The ND logo as is portraying a very stereotyped redheaded Irishman looking for a fight is fine by me... The same logo incorporating a bottle of whiskey would OTOH be over the line. The thing is that the history of many of these Indian related mascots is that they WERE mocking even if they fall into the honoring bucket in todays environment. My issue with that is if perceptions and intents of these mascots haw changed then why is the history of the mascot relevant?

Hehe i don't disagree - as a life long fan of Notre Dame, and a man of Irish heritage it doesn't bother me - but on the same token I know several Native Americans that aren't bothered by the "indian" mascots used all over. It really only takes a few, I'm just surprised it has never come up. Just thought it was an intriguing observation.

[ChewaBrave]

I grew up with a family that were direct descendants of "Sitting Bull", and were very proud of their ancestral past. To say that casinos and $$$$$ is what is to be proud of is dismissing a group, only through the eyes of discriminatory western centric eyes. There are area in which we all need to be sensitive about. I for one find the Native American's balance approach of nature quite advanced compared to today's view of raping our planet of all resources at any cost.

I'm assuming it was more of a joke, heh

[thefish7]

Hehe i don't disagree - as a life long fan of Notre Dame, and a man of Irish heritage it doesn't bother me - but on the same token I know several Native Americans that aren't bothered by the "indian" mascots used all over. It really only takes a few, I'm just surprised it has never come up. Just thought it was an intriguing observation.

No, I'm totally with you. I actually bring it up every time someone argues "against" Bradley's use of the name Braves. My suspicion (I don't have the data to back it up, admittedly) is that you're right-- most Native Americans don't care much, but a few do. The other thing I suspect, but don't know, is that most of the "movement's" membership is not of Native American descent, and just want something to believe in and/or get attention for. I think it's a bit of a tragedy that what they accomplished was to mess with programs like Bradley, while the Redskins name still persists in Washington.

[ChewaBrave]

Yeah the Redskins situation is kind of bizarre on both sides. The court originally rules in favor of the Native Americans in saying that they are right to be offended by the symbol, and it should be done away with - but then during appeals it is decided that the Native Americans were not prompt enough in vocalizing their offense taken due to the Redskins symbol - which implies some kind of statute of limitations on being offended, which is kind of odd.