Outcoached.

[rsmit84]

I think it would be fun/sad (if anybody had some major time on there hands) to see a list of coaches in upper mid-major to major schools that havent finished top 3 in their conference and have kept their job for 8 years. I know there would be others but I'm sure it would be a short list.

That being said, I feel this board has no middle ground. Its either everything is fine or the sky is falling. The only thing I know for sure is that this year has been very disappointing so far.

[BU-Bball]

We lost because our players missed key freethrows down the stretch, turned the ball over with a chance to take the lead and could not make a shot in the final minute and a half, also Creighton was the worse 3 point shooting team in the Valley but it seemed like they couldn"t miss tonight, the team was put in a position to win so it is hard to blame poor coaching on this, it was unfortunately Creightons night .
The thing that is hurting BU the most is the lack of depth as we have Egolf and Brown playing well but virtually no one to sub in for Brown and Singh does not add any scoring which makes it harder on our guards to get good shots when he is in, Thompson has been here for 3 seasons and appears to be a bust and Milos can only shoot but is not a physical type player so he will also struggle in this system.

Im guessing you missed my sarcasm in my entire post.....I couldnt agree with you more.

[flipper]

yea. maybe we were not outcoached just beaten at home by a better team. either way.not good.

[chitown fanatic]

He didn't come in to an already built program though, so it would take some time to build and with the gradual process we aren't back there yet but I think we are getting there with a bright future. So yes when taking that he came to the program while it was "in a bad stretch" yes it is to me considering the circumstances. And no I don't think 8 years is too long to build it before you ask.

YOU DON'T THINK 8 YEARS IS TOO LONG TO BUILD A PROGRAM????? WHAT??? 8 YEARS???!!!! How long is too long in your world? Wow, just an incredible viewpoint, mind boggling , actually. Can I work for you? I'd love to have 8 years to prove myself.

[Future Walk-On]

YOU DON'T THINK 8 YEARS IS TOO LONG TO BUILD A PROGRAM????? WHAT??? 8 YEARS???!!!! How long is too long in your world? Wow, just an incredible viewpoint, mind boggling , actually. Can I work for you? I'd love to have 8 years to prove myself.

what i said!!!!!!

[BradleyDU4]

YOU DON'T THINK 8 YEARS IS TOO LONG TO BUILD A PROGRAM????? WHAT??? 8 YEARS???!!!! How long is too long in your world? Wow, just an incredible viewpoint, mind boggling , actually. Can I work for you? I'd love to have 8 years to prove myself.

Regardless of how long it takes to build a program, I just feel like there should be a higher standard held for an employee making over 400k a year. Like any high level employee, produce or be replaced. 8 years and not one single top 3 conference finish is tough to swallow for a lot of fans.

[BUfan14]

YOU DON'T THINK 8 YEARS IS TOO LONG TO BUILD A PROGRAM????? WHAT??? 8 YEARS???!!!! How long is too long in your world? Wow, just an incredible viewpoint, mind boggling , actually. Can I work for you? I'd love to have 8 years to prove myself.

Depends on what you mean build it.....build it to a team that wins 20+ games consistently? He has. Now that is not the final step, but if you were expecting a final four by now then I think your view is unbelievable. This program has been built, now it needs to be built further, but its not like he hasn't built it at all in 8 years which is what most seem to imply with there "8 years isn't long enough!?" posts

[ER3]

Depends on what you mean build it.....build it to a team that wins 20+ games consistently? He has. Now that is not the final step, but if you were expecting a final four by now then I think your view is unbelievable. This program has been built, now it needs to be built further, but its not like he hasn't built it at all in 8 years which is what most seem to imply with there "8 years isn't long enough!?" posts

Nobody is expecting a final four here...that is a silly exaggeration.

I think it is pretty clear what the people that are unhappy with Les wish he and his teams would deliver...and it isn't a series of 21-17 seasons ending with losses in fabricated postseason sham tournaments.

Contend for a Valley Championship once, that would be a start. It hasn't come close to happening yet, and it certainly isn't going to come this year, either...

He has built a program that year-after-year finishes at or slightly above .500 in Valley play and consistently stays out of the play-in round of the Valley Tournament...If it was year 3 or 4 of his tenure, these consistent decent-not-great finishes might be something that we could realistically view as being a nice foundation that we could build from...However, this is year 8...we peaked 4 years ago and have been regressing every year since then...NCAA->NIT->CBI->CIT->???.

When is this imaginary 'final step' coming? Next year, next year, next year??? We'll likely have basically this same exact team back next year...Dodie replaces Roberts, Prosser replaces Singh...So, why are we expecting greatness next year, exactly...? We're 10-10 with this bunch this year, so we're just going to magically be 16-4 next year at this time with the same major players? I have a hard time seeing how I'm supposed to buy into that.

[BUfan14]

Nobody is expecting a final four here...that is a silly exaggeration.

I think it is pretty clear what the people that are unhappy with Les wish he and his teams would deliver...and it isn't a series of 21-17 seasons ending with losses in fabricated postseason sham tournaments.

Contend for a Valley Championship once, that would be a start. It hasn't come close to happening yet, and it certainly isn't going to come this year, either...

He has built a program that year-after-year finishes at or slightly above .500 in Valley play and consistently stays out of the play-in round of the Valley Tournament...If it was year 3 or 4 of his tenure, these consistent decent-not-great finishes might be something that we could realistically view as being a nice foundation that we could build from...However, this is year 8...we peaked 4 years ago and have been regressing every year since then...NCAA->NIT->CBI->CIT->???.

When is this imaginary 'final step' coming? Next year, next year, next year??? We'll likely have basically this same exact team back next year...Dodie replaces Roberts, Prosser replaces Singh...So, why are we expecting greatness next year, exactly...? We're 10-10 with this bunch this year, so we're just going to magically be 16-4 next year at this time with the same major players? I have a hard time seeing how I'm supposed to buy into that.

In terms of next year, Yes I think it will come next year. The guys will have all played together for a year, and will all be a year older and more experienced. Plus JW could be coming. With SM, AW, DD all being seniors I think they will be more motivated than ever. WE and TB are growing every game and gaining experience. JP will be in the mix. DSE MK and JE will have a year under their belt, which the difference between freshman and sophomores is usually huge. Then we have AT and EM that could finally blossom and add even more to the mix. That is a solid team, with out many holes, I see no reason to not believe.

[houstontxbrave]

I was only able to see the 2nd half and the annoucers on Comcast just refuse to keep anyone updated on in game situations, I did not realize until now that we left a timeout on the board.

After watching us rush shots and look completely out of control in the last minute of the game last night, there is no reason at all that justifies leaving a timeout.

After the CU player missed the ft and we got the board and SM brought the ball up under 20 to play, how in any right mind could JL not call a timeout, settle everyone down and draw up a play. Instead we play on and get a pull up 25 footer.

Embarassing. It was enough that Warren took a desparate, not needed 3 from the corner under pressure, but we then get the ball back and still refuse to call a timeout... what exactly did leaving a timeout on the board accomplish?

The zone defense I guess was needed because they were doing anything they wanted v our man to man, because we do not rotate and we get suckered on ball fakes and back screens worse then a high school team. Anyway the defense we play sometimes is one thing but Les and in one game he takes a timeout early in the half after made shots that leave us with no timeout and in another game he leaves a timeout and we have two possessions under a minute to go needing a score/a 3 on the second possession and he doesnt call one.

Just incredible.

[BradleyBrave]

In terms of next year, Yes I think it will come next year. The guys will have all played together for a year, and will all be a year older and more experienced. Plus JW could be coming. With SM, AW, DD all being seniors I think they will be more motivated than ever. WE and TB are growing every game and gaining experience. JP will be in the mix. DSE MK and JE will have a year under their belt, which the difference between freshman and sophomores is usually huge. Then we have AT and EM that could finally blossom and add even more to the mix. That is a solid team, with out many holes, I see no reason to not believe.

You mentioned above something about '20 wins' being some sort of mark of distinction. When it takes nearly 40 games to get there, as it has the last two seasons, what does it really mean? Also, we've never lost less than 11 games in any of JL's seasons, and 13 or more every season but one. Does that ever resonate?

'JW could be coming'. Great. What does that get you? We had Danny Granger and were 4-10. We had Patrick O'Bryant and played in his freshman year and muddled around .500 for most of his sophomore year. Even if JW is better than both of them, what does that guarantee?

What reason do you have to believe I think is the question.

[BradleyDU4]

In terms of next year, Yes I think it will come next year. The guys will have all played together for a year, and will all be a year older and more experienced. Plus JW could be coming. With SM, AW, DD all being seniors I think they will be more motivated than ever. WE and TB are growing every game and gaining experience. JP will be in the mix. DSE MK and JE will have a year under their belt, which the difference between freshman and sophomores is usually huge. Then we have AT and EM that could finally blossom and add even more to the mix. That is a solid team, with out many holes, I see no reason to not believe.

I can appreciate the optimism in all of what you are saying, but i have a couple comments/questions about this assesment.

1. JW cannot be counted on to be here and given the fact that he hasnt played this year, even if he is here could we honestly expect a high level of production?

2. With the talent we have this year what exactly are the holes and how does what we have next year fill them?

3. With the flashes of greatness this team shows (U of I, MSU, maybe even UNI), you have to question why it isnt consistent and how next year will change that fact.

The Bradley Basketball underacheiving puzzle to me still seems hard to solve and I dont know at this point what a new season next year provides in solving it

[BUfan14]

You mentioned above something about '20 wins' being some sort of mark of distinction. When it takes nearly 40 games to get there, as it has the last two seasons, what does it really mean? Also, we've never lost less than 11 games in any of JL's seasons, and 13 or more every season but one. Does that ever resonate?

'JW could be coming'. Great. What does that get you? We had Danny Granger and were 4-10. We had Patrick O'Bryant and played in his freshman year and muddled around .500 for most of his sophomore year. Even if JW is better than both of them, what does that guarantee?

What reason do you have to believe I think is the question.

POB still finished with a Sweet Sixteen that year, but you can spin that negatively too if you want. And where did I say it guarantee's anything?? All i said is he could be coming, which is ONE reason for hope, not all. Other than my JW claim, I don't see anything in your post that refutes anything I said about next year's team and the reasons to believe.

"The guys will have all played together for a year, and will all be a year older and more experienced. Plus JW could be coming. With SM, AW, DD all being seniors I think they will be more motivated than ever. WE and TB are growing every game and gaining experience. JP will be in the mix. DSE MK and JE will have a year under their belt, which the difference between freshman and sophomores is usually huge. Then we have AT and EM that could finally blossom and add even more to the mix. That is a solid team, with out many holes, I see no reason to not believe."

Other than the JW thing, what else there leaves you with no hope for next year??? Those are all reasons for hope in that post for me, even without JW.

[BradleyBrave]

POB still finished with a Sweet Sixteen that year, but you can spin that negatively too if you want. And where did I say it guarantee's anything?? All i said is he could be coming, which is ONE reason for hope, not all. Other than my JW claim, I don't see anything in your post that refutes anything I said about next year's team and the reasons to believe.

"The guys will have all played together for a year, and will all be a year older and more experienced. Plus JW could be coming. With SM, AW, DD all being seniors I think they will be more motivated than ever. WE and TB are growing every game and gaining experience. JP will be in the mix. DSE MK and JE will have a year under their belt, which the difference between freshman and sophomores is usually huge. Then we have AT and EM that could finally blossom and add even more to the mix. That is a solid team, with out many holes, I see no reason to not believe."

Other than the JW thing, what else there leaves you with no hope for next year??? Those are all reasons for hope in that post for me, even without JW.

I have 6 1/2 of 8 years of underachieving supporting my side (2nd half of '06 and all of '06-'07 is the only time expectations were met or exceeded). What do you have on yours besides blind faith?

[BU_EMT128]

We had 4 posessions down by 3, with a chance to tie it up. AW got an open look, SM got an open look. What the h$ll else do you want?

I want us to use our remaining timeout to draw up a play. Not a rushed "open" look. Maybe on the 1st possession, no timeout is ok, but on the next 3??

Our team shot terrible but won every important stat except score.

Ultimately, those other important stats dont matter when we are sitting at home in march.

I'm not sure JL is the right guy, but saying we got outcoached here makes it pretty clear, one, you either haven't played, coached, or been actively involved with organized sports, or you have an agenda.

I have played, coached, and officiated high school basketball. I do pride myself on the fact I have a pretty good idea of what is going on.

Seriously, our two best shooters with shots to tie the game. What would you rather have had? How could any set play have helped? OUR TWO BEST SHOOTERS GOT SHOTS TO TIE THE GAME! Criminitly, I think if CU shot 100% from the field and our bench fell apart and injured every member of the starting lineup it would still, somehow, be JL's fault.

Coaching does not only occur in the last minute when you have 4 possessions to tie and get "open" looks. JL was outcoached when...

Creighton was on a 7-0 run in the first half, and instead of taking a timeout to stem the run, SM takes a shot 5 seconds into the shot clock. Thus we lose possession, creighton scores again, and then JL decides to use a timeout. Its ironic when my entire section is yelling and pleading for the coach to take a timeout.

JL sits WE for HUGE minutes, allowing SS to get spanked in the lane.

We leave a timeout on the board when we have 4, yes 4, possessions with a chance to tie under 1:30.

Take a look at a great coach, Altman. We shoot on a 5-0 run early in the second half. Dana immediately calls timeout, adjusts to our gameplan, and creighton goes on a 5-0 run of their own.

I think after this game, I have every right to be very upset and question our coaching.