How in the world could you give EM a C+? That has to be a joke.
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Mid (sort of ) Season Report Card
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Originally posted by romar View PostI know that some guys start great & finish weak while other start slow & finish strong. Post your reasons for your grades or simply put you letter grade down on the five starters & any bench players you would like. IMO at this point in the season there are only a couple of guys trending toward A's, but none have earned one yet. (I did this on chatzy the other night so I apologize to those who see it as a repeat).
SM - Solid B - trending toward a B+ or better with last couple of games. Seems like he's feeling fully healthy & at the right time!
WE - B+ with big leap in effort on the floor - like what I'm seeing last 2-3 games - if only he were a true 5!
TB - C+ - stupid off court things and his trend of finding dumb fouls lately has hampered his production and time on the court. To steal from Yogi Berra, basketball is 90% mental & the other half is physical - TB has the physical, just the space between his ears gets in the way once in a while.
AW - C - reminds me alot of JC his Jr year & 1/2 his Sr year - just doesn't seem to want to step into the role as "the man" even though he has the ability to do it. Has shown a tendency to trend up late in the year - hope that continues.
CR - C - his "D" has been awesome, but his "O" has been MIA - I partially blame the coaching staff. Every other team with a guy like CR will set back-screens for Alley-oops at least 2 x's per game. Why can't SS set a moving screen or two off the ball once in a while (tongue firmly in cheek). If CR get's 1/2 a step toward the basket all SM has to do it get close.
OK - Will only give addl grades to the two Frosh logging minutes (on a bit of a curve here for obvious reasons - they're FRESHMAN!)
DSE - B++ - only thing keeping him from an A was the time it took him to get back "up to speed" following his down time. Saw him in HS and he has shown so much more grit than I expected and has fantastic skills paired with good B-ball instincts IMO. Has a decent jumper but if can make it a good jumper with the way he finishes around the basket, he will be tough to stop in the MVC (or anywhere else for that matter).
JE - B - clearly a heady player and coaches son - thought he'd be a more complete "knock down" shooter, but has a nose for the ball & is very "grindy" when he gets on the floor. Have noticed he's not afraid of floorburns & gets rebounds because he WILL put a body on a guy once the shot goes up.
There's my take - would be interested in others thoughts!
SM though is I think an A he is just hard core hard nosed and even when he was struggling in the non conference, the guy played and played hard. Not his fault he played even when hurt.
AW I know he has some very strong stats but the eye test for me is he was a much more well rounded player before he broke his hand 2 years ago. He went to the rim hard, got into passing lanes and created turnovers. He was a definite triple threat. For me the C is deserved simply for the grade school intentional foul at SIU. That was terrible. But his overall game today is equal to a C.
But, I see some other things specifically his defense, he is getting beaten more often then he used to one on one. He looks honestly a step slow sliding... especially to his left. I am just not sure he is 100% confident in his overall game.
But he is a great scorer and when he is on shooting the ball he is on bigtime. But if you break down his last 4 games offensively:
11-34 from the field
14-14 from the line
14 total turnovers.
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Originally posted by bigdaddystuck View PostAn interesting thread....here are my 2 cents
SM - B+
WE - B
TB - C+
AW - C+.
CR - B-
EM- C+
DSE - B+
JE - B -
You have Eddren getting the exact same grade as Andrew Warren, who is the top scorer in MVC league play, and TB...who leads the team in rebounding and is 2nd in scoring and who is 2nd in FG%, FT%, and steals.
and you have Sam Maniscalco getting exactly the same grade as Dyricus, who's averaging 4 ppg,
and you have Jake Eastman getting the same grade as Chris Roberts who often "fills the stat sheet".....
TB is inside the top 12 in the Valley in six different statistical categories, I don't think any MVC player is rated in the top in more categories...
and also....anyone....who in the Valley would get an A?? Just curious, I can understand why nobody wants to answer...
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Originally posted by tornado View Postso let me get this straight...and please don't pummel me simply for asking this...I think these are legitimate questions.....
You have Eddren getting the exact same grade as Andrew Warren, who is the top scorer in MVC league play, and TB...who leads the team in rebounding and is 2nd in scoring and who is 2nd in FG%, FT%, and steals.
and you have Sam Maniscalco getting exactly the same grade as Dyricus, who's averaging 4 ppg,
and you have Jake Eastman getting the same grade as Chris Roberts who often "fills the stat sheet".....
TB is inside the top 12 in the Valley in six different statistical categories, I don't think any MVC player is rated in the top in more categories...
and also....anyone....who in the Valley would get an A?? Just curious, I can understand why nobody wants to answer...
As far as TB goes he has had some great games this year but many games has been MIA. Also many dumb plays and dumb fouls that could have seriously hurt us-especially in recent games. IMO that is why so many are saying he isn't worhty of any grade above a C+ and IMO I would only give him a C as I really do expect more from him on a regular basis.
As for AW-he also has nights where he just doesn't seem to show up to play. Part of that might have to do w/ the amount of minutes he has been playing and he might be wearing down after not playing or even being able to condition much the last 2 years. IMO I would give AW a B- for the season but would like to see more consistency over all.
If TB & AW were playing as hard as WE, SM, CR & DSE are when they are on the floor the grades would be much better. IMO I don't see those 2 players giving 100% all of the time like I do the rest of the guys that play.
I do love the team as a whole and, yes I agree, that AW has a chance @ 1st or 2nd team all MVC along w/ SM & WE-not saying they will make it
but are playing very well in the Valley portion of the season.
Over all I would give this team a solid B for the season to this point. There are only 2 games that should have been deffinate wins that we lost. There were other game we lost we could have possibly won but the other team was just as good as we were talent wise. Some loses were because we didn't play to our potential and others were just because we got beat by a better team (at least on that night)
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Originally posted by tornado View Postso let me get this straight...and please don't pummel me simply for asking this...I think these are legitimate questions.....
You have Eddren getting the exact same grade as Andrew Warren, who is the top scorer in MVC league play, and TB...who leads the team in rebounding and is 2nd in scoring and who is 2nd in FG%, FT%, and steals.
and you have Sam Maniscalco getting exactly the same grade as Dyricus, who's averaging 4 ppg,
and you have Jake Eastman getting the same grade as Chris Roberts who often "fills the stat sheet".....
TB is inside the top 12 in the Valley in six different statistical categories, I don't think any MVC player is rated in the top in more categories...
and also....anyone....who in the Valley would get an A?? Just curious, I can understand why nobody wants to answer...
If I were giving out grades, DSE would probably be the guy I would give the highest grade to...based on the fact that he was mentioned as a redshirt candidate by some before the season started, and now he has progressed to the point where he is our best bench player and is often on the floor at the end of tight games...
He would get the highest grade, but that doesn't mean he is our best player...
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Originally posted by ER3 View PostI would assume that the grades that people are giving each of these guys is based on what the expectations were for each player coming into the season...If the player exceeded those expectations, they would get in the A/B range, if a player fell below his preseason expectations they would get in the C-/D range...
If I were giving out grades, DSE would probably be the guy I would give the highest grade to...based on the fact that he was mentioned as a redshirt candidate by some before the season started, and now he has progressed to the point where he is our best bench player and is often on the floor at the end of tight games...
He would get the highest grade, but that doesn't mean he is our best player...
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so since Osiris was everyone's preseason Player of the Year, and since he really hasn't lived up to the hype, and even his own fans have blasted him as selfish and are looking forward to him being gone next year, and in their own thread NONE have him as POY, then I guess he'd get a D or D- ?
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Originally posted by tornado View Postso let me get this straight...and please don't pummel me simply for asking this...I think these are legitimate questions.....
You have Eddren getting the exact same grade as Andrew Warren, who is the top scorer in MVC league play, and TB...who leads the team in rebounding and is 2nd in scoring and who is 2nd in FG%, FT%, and steals.
and you have Sam Maniscalco getting exactly the same grade as Dyricus, who's averaging 4 ppg,
and you have Jake Eastman getting the same grade as Chris Roberts who often "fills the stat sheet".....
TB is inside the top 12 in the Valley in six different statistical categories, I don't think any MVC player is rated in the top in more categories...
and also....anyone....who in the Valley would get an A?? Just curious, I can understand why nobody wants to answer...
Stats are impressive- but don't tell the whole story all the time...
I would be interested to see when people score and get rebounds- a weighted value added to simple numbers...
Nobody is saying BU sucks- just that they have largely underachieved... IF everyone deserves a b or better- why is Bradley barely above .500?
I know- injuries, etc.... all excuses...???We all want Bradley to win. If our methods and visions for that are different, then so be it. Don't ever attempt to tell me I am not a fan!???
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Originally posted by ER3 View PostI would assume that the grades that people are giving each of these guys is based on what the expectations were for each player coming into the season...If the player exceeded those expectations, they would get in the A/B range, if a player fell below his preseason expectations they would get in the C-/D range...
If I were giving out grades, DSE would probably be the guy I would give the highest grade to...based on the fact that he was mentioned as a redshirt candidate by some before the season started, and now he has progressed to the point where he is our best bench player and is often on the floor at the end of tight games...
He would get the highest grade, but that doesn't mean he is our best player...
If we grade based on expectations, the better players will never be able to get As and Bs, because even if they play extremely well, they are "just meeting expectations".
If we graded academically this way, the smart people could get 100% on tests and would still get a C because that's what their teachers expected them to do.
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Originally posted by Da Coach View PostI believe grades should be based on the same criteria for everyone. That's the only fair way, IMO.
If we grade based on expectations, the better players will never be able to get As and Bs, because even if they play extremely well, they are "just meeting expectations".
If we graded academically this way, the smart people could get 100% on tests and would still get a C because that's what their teachers expected them to do.
But if he is our best player don't you expect him to find a way to make a difference?
I can better defend the TB's grade.. because he's like the kid scoring A's one some tests and c's, d's and f's on others. When he's good he is very good. But he has also pulled some disappearing acts, and made some very bad plays and decisions. Personally c+ or b- seems about right for him.
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Originally posted by Da Coach View PostI believe grades should be based on the same criteria for everyone. That's the only fair way, IMO.
If we grade based on expectations, the better players will never be able to get As and Bs, because even if they play extremely well, they are "just meeting expectations".
If we graded academically this way, the smart people could get 100% on tests and would still get a C because that's what their teachers expected them to do.
But I think grading everyone on the same criteria would make it impossible for guys like Simms-Edwards and Eastman to appear to get the proper level of credit for their contributions...
Simms-Edwards and Eastman were likely expected to have little to no impact on this year's team...they are both playing much more, and much more effectively, than expected this year...I think. Therefore, I think their grade should reflect that, in some way. But if using your system, you arrive at their grade by comparing their statistical contributions up against those of SM, TB, AW, WE, etc...well, then you end up giving someone like DSE a "C" and Eastman would get a "D" or lower...and I don't think that accurately captures how well they have performed relative to the role they were expected to fill for this team this year...
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Originally posted by Braveman View PostHonestly- How can you say this?
A 10-9 team is a C team at best... And Romar and others didn't say anything about not enjoying this team.. Sheesh...
Agreed....my goodness. Just because I don't like some of the US policies or maybe I'm grading the President a C or D should I be told to move to Russsia.
And grade a player anything you feel deserving...but if the players are getting A's and B's and we are a mediocre (c) team then it MUST be coaching.Last edited by dogsrus; 01-25-2010, 06:32 PM.
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Originally posted by tornado View Postso let me get this straight...and please don't pummel me simply for asking this...I think these are legitimate questions.....
You have Eddren getting the exact same grade as Andrew Warren, who is the top scorer in MVC league play, and TB...who leads the team in rebounding and is 2nd in scoring and who is 2nd in FG%, FT%, and steals.
and you have Sam Maniscalco getting exactly the same grade as Dyricus, who's averaging 4 ppg,
and you have Jake Eastman getting the same grade as Chris Roberts who often "fills the stat sheet".....
TB is inside the top 12 in the Valley in six different statistical categories, I don't think any MVC player is rated in the top in more categories...
and also....anyone....who in the Valley would get an A?? Just curious, I can understand why nobody wants to answer...
I think that DSE, EM, JE, have roles on this team that don't ask as much of them as say AW, SM, and TB's. So in their diminished roles I think that DSE, EM, and JE are doing a better job of reaching the goals given to them by the coaching staff. Obviously this is my opinion and I have no idea what their actual goals are!
As for "filling up" stat sheets or being the leading scorer....they don't hold as much for me as some others. AW was leading the league in scoring and we were losing games. The scoring has been spread around a little more evenly and we have begun to win games. Not a slam on AW, just something I look for. If AW, TB, SM were leading the valley in all these categories and still losing....doesn't really matter does it!
In the end, our overall record and how we are developing is the biggest things. Right now our overall record is just over .500 and we are improving. As I said, if we keep improving and winning, then a lot of these grades would go up.
I don't really follow individual players from other teams enough to grade them and that was not the purpose of this thread! In the end, the one stat that matters is wins and loses. We are in the middle right now. Could we beat the teams ahead of us? YES! But only time will tell.Some see a hopeless end, while others see an endless hope.
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