mediocrity

[ER3]

Just stating facts. I don't see any statement of expectations or excuses in my post, but nice try, anyway.

Here is the Merriam-Webster definition of mediocre:
: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance.

As I stated, In the last 5 years, Jim Les teams have had a winning record. Their compiled record is 91-60. If you consider that "slightly above .500", you would clearly not be accurate.
During that stretch, Bradley has not played patsies like some MVC teams have. If they had, their record would be even better.
Bradley's Strength of Schedule, when averaged over the past 5 seasons, has been easily the #1 SOS of all MVC teams, and their RPI's are as follows-
2005-2006- 33
2006-2007- 38
2007-2008- 105
2008-2009- 98
2009-2010- 110
Bradley's average of those last 5 years' RPIs (77) is barely behind UNI's 5 year average (67) which is the best in the MVC.

I realize Bradley hasn't won any national championships, but I don't consider this mediocre, either. Just sayin'...


Bash away...

Like I said, it's all a matter of personal perspective.
You consider last year a 'success', so be it...
I consider a 21-17 season to be one "of moderate quality"...I consider 4th, 5th, and 6th place finishes in conference to be results "of moderate quality"...a.k.a., mediocre...that's just my perspective on it all...

Nobody in their right mind would expect a national championship here at BU, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...but thanks for adding that.

[BUfan14]

Just stating facts. I don't see any statement of expectations or excuses in my post, but nice try, anyway.

Here is the Merriam-Webster definition of mediocre:
: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance.

As I stated, In the last 5 years, Jim Les teams have had a winning record. Their compiled record is 91-60. If you consider that "slightly above .500", you would clearly not be accurate.
During that stretch, Bradley has not played patsies like some MVC teams have. If they had, their record would be even better.
Bradley's Strength of Schedule, when averaged over the past 5 seasons, has been easily the #1 SOS of all MVC teams, and their RPI's are as follows-
2005-2006- 33
2006-2007- 38
2007-2008- 105
2008-2009- 98
2009-2010- 110
Bradley's average of those last 5 years' RPIs (77) is barely behind UNI's 5 year average (67) which is the best in the MVC.

I realize Bradley hasn't won any national championships, but I don't consider this mediocre, either. Just sayin'...


Bash away...

Thank you DaCoach, someone who agrees with me! This program is not completely where I want it at either, but JL has raised it a step up from the start, and I feel the next step is coming but takes time. It has definitely not been mediocre. I think we will see that step up in the next 2 years, but people are already dismissing it as though we will not take that step because of 9 games.

He has only had one disappointing season so far which a lot of was bad luck and still turned out average excuses or not! People act like every year he has finished way below what he is suppose to have. The last 4-5 years have been good, albeit not great, but I think we will take that step.

What evidence is there that nothing is working and that we will not take that step in terms of disappointing seasons not just individual games besides one year???

[ER3]

But why? How much of a precedent is there for us to contend year in and year out and win 25 games? When has it ever happened consistently? You could make the case that if you take away Hersey Hawkins, we've always been basically a middle of the pack team, some years better, some years worse. Sure we all hope for better, but you can put hope in one hand and.....well you know the rest.

I don't really care about precedents...I refuse to simply resign myself to hoping that we somehow avoid the play-in game every year simply because that's an easier path to take...

The sustained successes of programs like Creighton and SIU was what I thought this program was aspiring toward...rather than just crossing our fingers and hoping we could be slightly better than Evansville or Indy State each year... This, I thought, was far more than just an empty, unfounded hope that a lot of us shared...but maybe it's just me.

[longtimelistener]

I don't really care about precedents...I refuse to simply resign myself to hoping that we somehow avoid the play-in game every year simply because that's an easier path to take...

The sustained successes of programs like Creighton and SIU was what I thought this program was aspiring toward...rather than just crossing our fingers and hoping we could be slightly better than Evansville or Indy State each year... This, I thought, was far more than just an empty, unfounded hope that a lot of us shared...but maybe it's just me.

It's not just you, dude.

[TheAsianSensation]

Ok, the more I look at this, here's the thing:

The criteria we generally use to define success and failure contradict each other. We have several ways to judge a coach. In judging Les, these criteria directly contradict each other.

We made just 1 NCAA tourney in the 8 years. Average. But that was a Sweet 16 year. Very very very good. In terms of NCAA tourney criteria, he has succeeded quite well despite making it only once

We have not finished in the top 3 of the conference standings in 8 years. Failing marks.

We have not won the conference tourney, with one finals appearance in 8 years. Failing marks.

4 straight winning seasons. Consistency is invaluable. Les passes with flying colors in this regard.

Likewise, 4 straight postseasons, but the last 2 only happened because the new tournaments were created. Les is average in this respect. The streak of 20-win seasons also falls in this category.

National relevance: We're getting better. We're one of the more respected mid-major teams, IMO. A plus here.

Scheduling: A+++++++++++++++++ job here. Pretty obvious.

Developing individual players: We turned POB into a lottery pick and we have guys playing overseason. A plus here.


So there you have it. What happens when you've done very well in certain aspects yet so horribly in other aspects? Differing opinions about what matters most. Arguments. Decisions as to what is more important. In other words, the last few days on this forum

[Da Coach]

So would you categorize all those accomplishments as mediocre?
That's all I'm saying. I think, considering everything in the last few years, this qualifies as above average, and a little better than mediocre.

[BUfan14]

Ok, the more I look at this, here's the thing:

The criteria we generally use to define success and failure contradict each other. We have several ways to judge a coach. In judging Les, these criteria directly contradict each other.

We made just 1 NCAA tourney in the 8 years. Average. But that was a Sweet 16 year. Very very very good. In terms of NCAA tourney criteria, he has succeeded quite well despite making it only once

We have not finished in the top 3 of the conference standings in 8 years. Failing marks.

We have not won the conference tourney, with one finals appearance in 8 years. Failing marks.

4 straight winning seasons. Consistency is invaluable. Les passes with flying colors in this regard.

Likewise, 4 straight postseasons, but the last 2 only happened because the new tournaments were created. Les is average in this respect. The streak of 20-win seasons also falls in this category.

National relevance: We're getting better. We're one of the more respected mid-major teams, IMO. A plus here.

Scheduling: A+++++++++++++++++ job here. Pretty obvious.

Developing individual players: We turned POB into a lottery pick and we have guys playing overseason. A plus here.


So there you have it. What happens when you've done very well in certain aspects yet so horribly in other aspects? Differing opinions about what matters most. Arguments. Decisions as to what is more important. In other words, the last few days on this forum

I agree with everything in this post actually! The only thing that really needs to get better is the conference finishes both regular season and tourny! I think they will based on the talent coming in, others think it won't. But with all the potential and depth on the next 3 to 4 years teams really, if we still can't do better in conference without any more NCAA tourny runs then I will look at things. But I think things are looking up until then and JL has done a better than average job improving the program and bringing in talent, and really putting us back into respectablility! JL has more positives on that list than negatives!

[bigdaddystuck]

IMO we have been a slightly above average team in JL's tenure as coach. I like the athleticism that has been brought in, and agree that recruiting is not a problem. I do think that there is a lack of cohesion at times. Where that comes from....lack of experience in the coaching staff, egos(players and coaches)...I am not sure.

IMO it is not so much that we have lost the last 2 home games, but the way we lost them. I always tell my players that I can live with a loss, if we have given 100% effort and have done all that we could. The last 2 home games have not shown that effort, IMO.

That said, the teams we have lost to have not really been horrible bottom feeder teams. The non-con is to get us ready for the conference season. If the team does the right things and learns from these last 2 games,then things will work themselves out and good things will happen.

[TheAsianSensation]

So would you categorize all those accomplishments as mediocre?
That's all I'm saying. I think, considering everything in the last few years, this qualifies as above average, and a little better than mediocre.

Assuming you're referring to my post --

The point is that there's a lot of different categories, and different categories carry different importances with different people. Some only care about the NCAA and getting into position for that tournament. Some only care about the conference finish and then if anything happens in the NCAA, all the better. And more than any other coach I can think of right now, Les has an overall profile where he has greatly succeeded in many areas and failed spectacularly in others.

I could offer my personal opinion on what category is most important, but that wasn't the point of the post I'm trying to get at why we have such wild fluctuation in the evaluation of Les.

[BUfan14]

IMO it is not so much that we have lost the last 2 home games, but the way we lost them. I always tell my players that I can live with a loss, if we have given 100% effort and have done all that we could. The last 2 home games have not shown that effort, IMO.

That said, the teams we have lost to have not really been horrible bottom feeder teams. The non-con is to get us ready for the conference season. If the team does the right things and learns from these last 2 games,then things will work themselves out and good things will happen.

100% agree! Our non-con season will have prepared us just as much or more than any other Valley team for the conference season! Hopefully we will have that advantage. Not good losses for sure, but not bad teams either, let's make up for it with a great conference run!!!

I also agree with DaCoach about our accomplishments definitely being above average!

[TheAsianSensation]

And if you want my personal opinion, I value the scheduling and NCAA tournament results a bit more than the rest. National relevance is happening, and the consecutive winning seasons are too. However, no top 3 Valley finishes in forever is sort of ridiculous, and in my book, he's got 2 years to do that once. If he can't get there, it's tough to make the NCAA tournament and it's tough to continue to schedule as well, so that problem will begat new problems.

[ER3]

So would you categorize all those accomplishments as mediocre?
That's all I'm saying. I think, considering everything in the last few years, this qualifies as above average, and a little better than mediocre.

I would categorize the performance in the last 5 weeks or so of the Sweet 16 season as amazing.
I would categorize the performance in the year following the Sweet 16 season as outstanding. I thought that was by far Les's finest season...considering what was lost from the previous year's team and the magnitude of the adjustments that had to be made to be competitive with that roster.

There is nothing mediocre about those performances in my mind...nothing at all.
But there is a lot of what I would define as mediocrity in the years before and after that stretch...and again, that's just based on my point of view...you clearly have a different decision point between mediocrity and success than I do...
Winning a Valley title is a priority to me...from my season tickets, I face that "1996" on the Valley title banner every night I'm in Carver...and I simply need another number up there to look at. And I sincerely hope that this new number, whenever it arrives, starts with a "201..."...

[lefty]

Developing individual players: We turned POB into a lottery pick

Did we really? I mean POB had two great games back to back that happened in the tourney........timing was everything

[Bravesfan]

Thank you DaCoach, someone who agrees with me! This program is not completely where I want it at either, but JL has raised it a step up from the start, and I feel the next step is coming but takes time. It has definitely not been mediocre. I think we will see that step up in the next 2 years, but people are already dismissing it as though we will not take that step because of 9 games.

He has only had one disappointing season so far which a lot of was bad luck and still turned out average excuses or not! People act like every year he has finished way below what he is suppose to have. The last 4-5 years have been good, albeit not great, but I think we will take that step.

What evidence is there that nothing is working and that we will not take that step in terms of disappointing seasons not just individual games besides one year???

I agree with you too BUfan14.