mediocrity

[Bravesfan]

People seem to jump all over JL as never being able to sustain success or build the program. There have been games we should have won, as there are with any program and JL has made his mistakes just like any coach. When we lose against higher ranked teams it's a "lost opportunity" to people when we lose to bad teams everybody is questioning everything. Programs will always have losses and there will always be reasons, no loss is a good loss, but they will happen.

Which years under JL have been so disappointing? The first three years were rebuilding, nothing too much expected. Nobody expected a Sweet 16 from Bradley in 2005-2006. The 06-07 season was far better than most expected. Last year was above what many people thought losing JC and Ruff and still having a decent season. The ONLY super disappointing year to me under JL was 07-08 when JC and Ruff were seniors and that season was riddled with bad luck injuries and the whole Ruff situation and still turned out at least average. I will judge this season when it ends, but JL has really had only one really disappointing season so far in my eyes. Should we lose games like yesterday? No. Are there things that need improved? Most certainly by JL and the players, they are far from perfect and I stated my frustration with yesterday. BUT I believe this program is heading in the right direction and in my opinion with all the talent we have this team will continue to get better. I think this team will have a very good conference season.

Great post BUfan14! Most national publications have predicted Bradley finishing sixth in the Valley this season, so are we really under achieveing this season? Probably not, yesterday notwithstanding. The Illinois win shows us we have talent, but obviously we are not consistent enough to put it all together on a regular basis yet.

At a local bookstore today I saw the Yahoo college basketball preview magazine and they named Bradley the team on the rise in the Valley, but still had them predicted sixth! This shows that they respect Les as a coach while noting his four consectutive postseason appearances, but also see that this team is not quite ready for a Valley title challange, at least for this year.

What does this mean for us this season? Any upper division finish for us would actually exceed expectations, at least from the national pundits. Maybe our fanbase expects a lot more quickly, but all teams in the conference try to improve so moving up the ladder is sometimes easier said than done.

Yesterday was a frustrating loss as I mentioned on some previous threads, and some frustration came out from me as well. That was a game we had no business losing, but it would not have changed the texture of this season all that much even if we had won it. I want to see how well we do in the conference season this year. If we finish well below .500 then I would be concerned. But I think 10 to 12 wins would be a nice year, and maybe even enough for an NIT if things fall into place. I know many people don't want to hear that, but that seems to be reality. Heck, if we manage to beat Iowa St. though, I think some will forget about what happened last night, and we may actually still have a great season! As many say, the season is a marathon, not a sprint.

[real fan]

People seem to jump all over JL as never being able to sustain success or build the program. There have been games we should have won, as there are with any program and JL has made his mistakes just like any coach. When we lose against higher ranked teams it's a "lost opportunity" to people when we lose to bad teams everybody is questioning everything. Programs will always have losses and there will always be reasons, no loss is a good loss, but they will happen.

Which years under JL have been so disappointing? The first three years were rebuilding, nothing too much expected. Nobody expected a Sweet 16 from Bradley in 2005-2006. The 06-07 season was far better than most expected. Last year was above what many people thought losing JC and Ruff and still having a decent season. The ONLY super disappointing year to me under JL was 07-08 when JC and Ruff were seniors and that season was riddled with bad luck injuries and the whole Ruff situation and still turned out at least average. I will judge this season when it ends, but JL has really had only one really disappointing season so far in my eyes. Should we lose games like yesterday? No. Are there things that need improved? Most certainly by JL and the players, they are far from perfect and I stated my frustration with yesterday. BUT I believe this program is heading in the right direction and in my opinion with all the talent we have this team will continue to get better. I think this team will have a very good conference season.

The talent on this team should not be losing to Loyola , that is why there are so many of us frustrated about the situation.

[lefty]

And Im asking you which year was our accomplishments so far below what you expected other than one?

The first 3 years have a lot to do with that record looking low as well. Last four years: 86-56 (40-32). Shows improvement to me, not a program with no direction....and don't give me that some of those wins were against bad team in an ABC tourny, because we did beat some decent programs like Virginia and such in those tournys, a win is a win just like a loss is a loss. Plus JL could have an inflated record if he scheduled like some other schools, but he chooses to challenge his players, which is better for them in the long run. Other things go into a record than just strictly wins and losses. Like where the program was when the coach started and how tough the games he is scheduling are. I see a program that is improving in the last few years from where it was over the first few, now give it a few years to see if we can take the next step and improve some more. Some say they will do that, but then really give it no chance because they doubt it will happen. JL has stepped up the program a level since he started (comparing early JL years to later JL years), I have confidence he will raise it to the next level as well. It is a process that won't happen overnight.

I think we are past overnight..........You see a program improving the last 3 compared to the first three....do the middle two count for anything?

We improved and then we've been very stagnant since....that's it

[BUfan14]

I think we are past overnight..........You see a program improving the last 3 compared to the first three....do the middle two count for anything?

We improved and then we've been very stagnant since....that's it

I never said first 3 and last 3, I remember saying early and later years which includes the middle two. We spent 3 years being pretty bad, then 4 pretty decent years, now it is time for the next step this year and next year is what I'm saying.

Did we go from bad in year one to Sweet 16 in year 2? No it took a few years. The next step will too, and if it does not happen in the next 2 to 3 years then that is fine, but until then wait and see before judging is all I'm saying. Not many seem to want to wait and see like it is easy to just transition into Butler or even Creighton. If he was able to take one step, I think he will be able to take the next, but we will see. The Sweet 16 was step one, then he needed a few years to get recruits with that before step two, now is that time. We have a ton of talent over the next 2 years and hopefully beyond, but you have to remember that talent is still trying to come together as 2/5 of our starters were not on the court with everybody else last year, and TB didn't exactly get a ton of playing time. Yes this team needs more attitude, but I think most are dismissing them way too early before they get a chance to gell. I think they will gell, step up, and be fine.

Someone said earlier in this thread they wished I was their professor because I like mediocrity or something of that effect. Well on a 30 question test would you like me to assume you got a 56% if you only got 5 of out the first 9? No you might have done good on the rest, so you would probably want me to wait and see wouldn't you?

[SaintLouBrave22]

And Im asking you which year was our accomplishments so far below what you expected other than one?

So how many years are you allowed at your job to show improvement?

I certainly know that if I wasn't much more than just average or mediocre into my 8th year on the job, I'd be out on my *ss!


Look at all the other teams in the conference...


We're already one of the last to never win a tournament in St. Louis (Evansville, Wichita St), and we're getting real close to everyone having won a Valley championship since the last time we won one.


Its beyond time for all of us to celebrate in St. Louis and a conference regular season title would be nice as well...


The question is when? I just can't see it.

[versace4pres]

And Im asking you which year was our accomplishments so far below what you expected other than one?

The first 3 years have a lot to do with that record looking low as well. Last four years: 86-56 (40-32). Shows improvement to me, not a program with no direction....and don't give me that some of those wins were against bad team in an ABC tourny, because we did beat some decent programs like Virginia and such in those tournys, a win is a win just like a loss is a loss. Plus JL could have an inflated record if he scheduled like some other schools, but he chooses to challenge his players, which is better for them in the long run. Other things go into a record than just strictly wins and losses. Like where the program was when the coach started and how tough the games he is scheduling are. I see a program that is improving in the last few years from where it was over the first few, now give it a few years to see if we can take the next step and improve some more. Some say they will do that, but then really give it no chance because they doubt it will happen. JL has stepped up the program a level since he started (comparing early JL years to later JL years), I have confidence he will raise it to the next level as well. It is a process that won't happen overnight.

How long are your nights? You must live WAAAAYYYY up north! In the private sector, I can assure you the evenings are much shorter. Now take out the Presbyterians of the world in your 86-56 and then tell me we are headed in the right direction.

[shaunguth]

Look at all the other teams in the conference...


We're already one of the last to never win a tournament in St. Louis (Evansville, Wichita St), and we're getting real close to everyone having won a Valley championship since the last time we won one.


Its beyond time for all of us to celebrate in St. Louis and a conference regular season title would be nice as well...


The question is when? I just can't see it.

I always thought the ultimate goal of any college basketball team was to make the NCAA tournament and maybe even win a game or two. How many Valley teams have had any such success? It's beyond time for the rest of the Valley to start pulling their weight on a national level.

The question is when? I just can't see it.

[lefty]

I never said first 3 and last 3, I remember saying early and later years which includes the middle two. We spent 3 years being pretty bad, then 4 pretty decent years, now it is time for the next step this year and next year is what I'm saying.

Did we go from bad in year one to Sweet 16 in year 2? No it took a few years. The next step will too, and if it does not happen in the next 2 to 3 years then that is fine, but until then wait and see before judging is all I'm saying. Not many seem to want to wait and see like it is easy to just transition into Butler or even Creighton. If he was able to take one step, I think he will be able to take the next, but we will see. The Sweet 16 was step one, then he needed a few years to get recruits with that before step two, now is that time. We have a ton of talent over the next 2 years and hopefully beyond, but you have to remember that talent is still trying to come together as 2/5 of our starters were not on the court with everybody else last year, and TB didn't exactly get a ton of playing time. Yes this team needs more attitude, but I think most are dismissing them way too early before they get a chance to gell. I think they will gell, step up, and be fine.

Someone said earlier in this thread they wished I was their professor because I like mediocrity or something of that effect. Well on a 30 question test would you like me to assume you got a 56% if you only got 5 of out the first 9? No you might have done good on the rest, so you would probably want me to wait and see wouldn't you?

Ok...I reread and understand. I still disagree though. There just isn't consistency right now going forward. Yes it seems like we have some good recruits. We have said that every year. Recruiting isn't a problem in my opinion.
I do agree it's still early and they have time to right the ship. I think some just don't think we have the fortitude to do it.
And if we are now going to play 3-4 guys 35 plus minutes a game we may run out of gas toward the end of the season

[BUfan14]

I think what people are missing is I said this year and next year ARE THAT TIME, there is no more waiting, but give this year and next year a chance!!! I said it was a process yes, but I also said the end of that process is about here and if nothing changes is these 2 years then evaluation is fine. What I am saying is that people are dismissing everything before this year and next year. People seem to be saying ok i'll give him this year and next year but then go on to complain about everything he does and say he needs to change everything, well then you aren't really giving him two more years. Are there things he needs to do better? Yes I have said that, but at the same time every loss does not mean season over and start over by changing EVERYTHING. This could still be a good season, because this group of players is really all just getting a chance to gell with 3/5 of our starters getting little to no playing time last year. I am not asking people to wait any longer as everyone seems to be saying, I'm asking people when they say they will give JL this year and next, to really do so til the end before demanding change and questioning everything. I haven't seen but one year to this point that had been hugely disappointing to me, so in my eyes there is no reason to be so doubtful until these 2 years prove otherwise, as it is time for the next step NOW as I have said but that has been ignored in my posts. Give this season a chance!!!

[Da Coach]

Let me inject a slight bit of reality.
Bradley, under Jim Les, has had winning records for each of the past 5 seasons, despite playing almost every one of those seasons with their leading scorer, or one or 2 of their top players injured for major portions of the seasons.

OK, you may now resume your bashing.

[SaintLouBrave22]

Let me inject a slight bit of reality.
Bradley, under Jim Les, has had winning records for each of the past 5 seasons, despite playing almost every one of those seasons with their leading scorer, or one or 2 of their top players injured for major portions of the seasons.

OK, you may now resume your bashing.

I usually agree w/ your insight DC, but how many years can we continue to use the "injury" excuse?

Everyone has injuries DC, and I mean everyone. The good teams are those that are coached through those injuries to be tougher.


Just take the Cincinnati football team for example...

Brian Kelly managed to play 3 games with 5+ starters missing on the offensive side including their all-am QB yet managed to win each game...


And they certainly didn't have trouble w/ the Loyola's or Idaho State's of college football.



At some point, the excuses have got to stop, injuries or otherwise.


Saying "man, you know what we could do if we were healthy"....


Thats just a different way of saying "wait til next year"...



And some of us are real tired of waiting!

[Buesch N Chips]

Let me inject a slight bit of reality.
Bradley, under Jim Les, has had winning records for each of the past 5 seasons, despite playing almost every one of those seasons with their leading scorer, or one or 2 of their top players injured for major portions of the seasons.

OK, you may now resume your bashing.

I think that's important coach, and it's very true. I think what is frustrating is that the guys who should be leading us to victory are actually causing the defeats. Seasoned guys, experienced guys. It's not like Eastman was out there for the first time screwing everything up. Singh, Warren, Roberts, Brown, and Maniscalco ended the disaster which was the Loyola game. You can't get much more experience than that. Those guys missed free throws, threw balls away, crumbled on defense. Who will lead us to victory when the other team makes their run?

[ER3]

Let me inject a slight bit of reality.
Bradley, under Jim Les, has had winning records for each of the past 5 seasons, despite playing almost every one of those seasons with their leading scorer, or one or 2 of their top players injured for major portions of the seasons.

OK, you may now resume your bashing.

If you lower your expectations enough and let your laundry list of excuses justify the mediocrity, you can never be disappointed. Whatever gets you through the night, I suppose.

I expect far more from this basketball program than a string of mid-pack Valley finishes and seasons that are slightly above .500...but...to each his own.

[Buesch N Chips]

I expect far more from this basketball program than a string of mid-pack Valley finishes and seasons that are slightly above .500

But why? How much of a precedent is there for us to contend year in and year out and win 25 games? When has it ever happened consistently? You could make the case that if you take away Hersey Hawkins, we've always been basically a middle of the pack team, some years better, some years worse. Sure we all hope for better, but you can put hope in one hand and.....well you know the rest.

[Da Coach]

If you lower your expectations enough and let your laundry list of excuses justify the mediocrity, you can never be disappointed. Whatever gets you through the night, I suppose.

I expect far more from this basketball program than a string of mid-pack Valley finishes and seasons that are slightly above .500...but...to each his own.

Just stating facts. I don't see any statement of expectations or excuses in my post, but nice try, anyway.

Here is the Merriam-Webster definition of mediocre:
: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance.

As I stated, In the last 5 years, Jim Les teams have had a winning record. Their compiled record is 91-60. If you consider that "slightly above .500", you would clearly not be accurate.
During that stretch, Bradley has not played patsies like some MVC teams have. If they had, their record would be even better.
Bradley's Strength of Schedule, when averaged over the past 5 seasons, has been easily the #1 SOS of all MVC teams, and their RPI's are as follows-
2005-2006- 33
2006-2007- 38
2007-2008- 105
2008-2009- 98
2009-2010- 110
Bradley's average of those last 5 years' RPIs (77) is barely behind UNI's 5 year average (67) which is the best in the MVC.

I realize Bradley hasn't won any national championships, but I don't consider this mediocre, either. Just sayin'...


Bash away...