Who would you rather have?

[Da Coach]

Since Taylor Brown's best play is ahead of him because he's just a sophomore, and IMO OE has already peaked at what he's capable of doing, it's difficult to compare them. I do think TB will be All MVC by his junior year, and maybe POY-type player.
Nonetheless, I'll give my opinion on which player I would rather have.
If I had a team with limited talent, and not many scorers, then I'd take Eldridge, because his offense can keep you in a game.
But if I had a team that had some decent talent, and was a potential NCAA tournament team, I'd rather have Brown, because he plays a position that's a lot harder to find a quality player, he plays great at both ends of the court, and is more of a team player.

[SFP]

I agree with Da_Coach 100%. If TB can develop a consistent 3 pt shot and a few moves with his back to the basket in the paint to go with his already short jumper and tenacious nose for the ball, watch out MVC. He's not that far from reaching the next plateau in his evolution of playing ball. BTW...All the great players in the NBA make a living hitting the mid-range jumper. They maybe able to hit the 3 but their game consists of driving to the rim and stopping and popping. TB has that ability IMHO. OE has the ability to be a role player in the next level and probably not much beyond.

[dogsrus]

Would you rather have Taylor Brown or Osiris Eldridge?

PPG... OE-20.3
TB-16.8

FG%... OE-50%
TB-56.8%

FGA per game... OE-13.7
TB-7.2

Rebounds per game...OE-3.3
TB-6.2

I was a little surprised how well Taylors stats compared to Osiris when looking at them today. The final point is, Taylor is a Sophomore and Osiris is a Junior. Can you make a case that Taylor is the best player in the MVC right now? One way or the other I am glad we have him at Bradley!!!

Isn't O a Senior.....

[Da Coach]

Yes, OE is a senior.

[bufan73]

All i see in this thread is a lot of "if's". Osiris is right now the more superior player. Brown has the talent...but IF he puts it together. P'Allen Stinnett is the primary example of the IF. The IF hasn't happened.

[tornado]

... a guy named Akinkunle for bu....

-OE is one of the best MVC players, I am glad he is in the valley and I think if he controls his desire to shoot every time he gets the ball, he's a very good player and a plus to whatever team he's on.

-The Valley needs to get as many players in the NBA as possible, so I am rooting for him.
Have you not seen ME and me alone touting all the Valley players who have made it to the NBA??

http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9969

-in my only other post in this thread I laid out simple and precise data, scoring numbers, and facts and said...
"difficult comparison...
I'd be curious how they'd do if facing comparable opponents..."
I made no attempt to place Taylor Brown over OE nor did I claim one was better than another...I left that to the reader.

-then regarding the above quoted comment that Adebayo Akinkunle was deficient offensively...
he didn't play much as a freshman and soph but as a junior averaged 12.4 ppg and as a senior averaged 15.4 ppg - ending his career with well over 1000 points and lots of rebounds as well...going on to a long, fine pro career.
BTW Akinkunle scored more points in his career than either Tolliver or Dilligard, but nice try with the Alzheimerish memory!

[DannyCooksey]

Danny Cooksey, I understand that you feel the compulsion to be the guardian of anything said against ISU here. But to suggest that it isn't relevant to bring up the defensive shortcomings of Osiris Eldridge is laughable. I would love to see him play in the NBA. The MVC needs all the visibility it can get.

OE got a number of workouts with NBA people last summer, and was told by every one of them to forget about entering the 2009 draft and go back to school. They told him he wasn't an NBA player, and the main reason was his inability to defend. He was advised to develop his point guard skills and try again next summer. But I don't see him as a point guard, either.

The knocks on Osiris Eldridge's defense by NBA scouts are perfectly appropriate for this discussion. If he doesn't get a chance in the NBA, it will be primarily because of his deficiencies on defense.

Coach. I wish you'd answer my question.

Again.......The ORIGINAL debate. ORIGINAL DEBATE was Brown vs OE. Correct???

THE DEBATE WAS NOT OE's NBA PROSPECTS!!!!!!!!!

The only FAIR way to compare the two (Brown and OE) is to base any comparison on what they've achieved to this point in the Valley. Is that fair or not? If that's not fair then maybe the original comparison should never have been made in the 1st place.

Therefore.....it is NOT FAIR to bring up OE's defense as it applies to the NBA. That has nothing to do with what his defense is like in the Valley. Furthermore it has nothing to do with basis of this thread.

THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POINTS

For the NBA.......they say his defense needs work. I will defer to those scouts because they know more than I do. I assume they are correct.

For the Valley........they say he's 1st team all-defense. That's voted on by the media and coaches and I also assume they know more than I do.

If his defense is so bad in COLLEGE.........HOW DID HE MAKE THE VALLEY ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM???? Are you suggesting that the awards in this league are tainted and undeserved?

So............when you compare Brown vs. OE..........NBA scouting reports are IRRELEVANT. One player has an NBA scouting report and the other player does not.

HOWEVER..........they both have Mo Valley 'scouting reports'. With that in mind.......OE's defense BASED ON WHAT HE'S DONE AND PROVEN AS A DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THIS LEAGUE gives him a decided edge as a player over BRown and I'm not counting his offense because we all agree OE is far superior.

I agree that Brown looks good but he's an infant in his development. If he works hard......he could achieve some good things. Time will tell. He has upside.

As for me feeling the compulsion to defend anything ISU---that's not true at all. Our schedule gets trashed daily/hourly on this forum (you even said today you never pass an opportunity to trash the ISU slate) and not once have I defended it. Our attendance is trashed weekly on here and I don't defend that either so I think you're embellishing quite a bit.

I am simply trying to see if you have the ability to compare apples to apples. I know you do!! I am simply trying to stay in keeping with the integrity and intention of the thread which was to compare OE vs. Brown.

[DannyCooksey]

-OE is one of the best MVC players, I am glad he is in the valley and I think if he controls his desire to shoot every time he gets the ball, he's a very good player and a plus to whatever team he's on.

-The Valley needs to get as many players in the NBA as possible, so I am rooting for him.
Have you not seen ME and me alone touting all the Valley players who have made it to the NBA??

http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9969

-in my only other post in this thread I laid out simple and precise data, scoring numbers, and facts and said...
"difficult comparison...
I'd be curious how they'd do if facing comparable opponents..."
I made no attempt to place Taylor Brown over OE nor did I claim one was better than another...I left that to the reader.

-then regarding the above quoted comment that Adebayo Akinkunle was deficient offensively...
he didn't play much as a freshman and soph but as a junior averaged 12.4 ppg and as a senior averaged 15.4 ppg - ending his career with well over 1000 points and lots of rebounds as well...going on to a long, fine pro career.
BTW Akinkunle scored more points in his career than either Tolliver or Dilligard, but nice try with the Alzheimerish memory!

I stand corrected on Akinkunle's offensive output. Those were some marginal bu teams and he's all they had in those years so congrats to him on the numbers. Doesn't change the fact that it's absurd to assume that offensive output influences a defensive award. It's not like the Gold Glove awards in MLB. That's all I was trying to say.

Nightmare made the 1st team all-defense last year and he averaged just over 8 points per game. Perhaps he's a better and more recent example.

[amckillip]

I stand corrected on Akinkunle's offensive output. Those were some marginal bu teams and he's all they had in those years so congrats to him on the numbers. Doesn't change the fact that it's absurd to assume that offensive output influences a defensive award. It's not like the Gold Glove awards in MLB. That's all I was trying to say.

Nightmare made the 1st team all-defense last year and he averaged just over 8 points per game. Perhaps he's a better and more recent example.

I contend it is MUCH like golden gloves in the NBA, great offense doesn't guarantee a spot, but it sure as heck helps. Case in point, Dodie Dunson. You honestly think OE is a better defender than DD? OE isn't bad, for MVC, but he isn't an All-MVC defensive caliber player.

Just look at the players that got it:

Theron Wilson - BU's best offensive player
OE - ILSU's 2nd best offensive player
Kwadzo - UNI's best offensive player
Odie - ILSU's 3rd best offensive player

Mullins was also a scorer (3rd best option?)

[Da Coach]

Coach. I wish you'd answer my question.

Again.......The ORIGINAL debate. ORIGINAL DEBATE was Brown vs OE. Correct???

THE DEBATE WAS NOT OE's NBA PROSPECTS!!!!!!!!!

The only FAIR way to compare the two (Brown and OE) is to base any comparison on what they've achieved to this point in the Valley. Is that fair or not? If that's not fair then maybe the original comparison should never have been made in the 1st place.

Therefore.....it is NOT FAIR to bring up OE's defense as it applies to the NBA. That has nothing to do with what his defense is like in the Valley. Furthermore it has nothing to do with basis of this thread.

THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POINTS

For the NBA.......they say his defense needs work. I will defer to those scouts because they know more than I do. I assume they are correct.

For the Valley........they say he's 1st team all-defense. That's voted on by the media and coaches and I also assume they know more than I do.

If his defense is so bad in COLLEGE.........HOW DID HE MAKE THE VALLEY ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM???? Are you suggesting that the awards in this league are tainted and undeserved?

So............when you compare Brown vs. OE..........NBA scouting reports are IRRELEVANT. One player has an NBA scouting report and the other player does not.

HOWEVER..........they both have Mo Valley 'scouting reports'. With that in mind.......OE's defense BASED ON WHAT HE'S DONE AND PROVEN AS A DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THIS LEAGUE gives him a decided edge as a player over BRown and I'm not counting his offense because we all agree OE is far superior.

I agree that Brown looks good but he's an infant in his development. If he works hard......he could achieve some good things. Time will tell. He has upside.

As for me feeling the compulsion to defend anything ISU---that's not true at all. Our schedule gets trashed daily/hourly on this forum (you even said today you never pass an opportunity to trash the ISU slate) and not once have I defended it. Our attendance is trashed weekly on here and I don't defend that either so I think you're embellishing quite a bit.

I am simply trying to see if you have the ability to compare apples to apples. I know you do!! I am simply trying to stay in keeping with the integrity and intention of the thread which was to compare OE vs. Brown.

First, neither I nor anyone else here is under any obligation to answer any questions. And I did give my opinions above. Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean I have to answer to you. So please stop being so annoying, and just read and accept what I and the others here have said, and stop badgering us.

Despite what you would like to believe, there are certain facts that I believe any intelligent and experienced observer of basketball can see. One of them is that Osiris isn't big enough and doesn't play good enough defense to play in the NBA. I hope he does, but I don't believe he will.
I also don't think he will ever play in an NCAA game. I hope I am wrong, but as good as you and ISU fans think he is, why hasn't he?
And who said anything here about ISU's attendance? Now you are really stretching things.

[tornado]

...Those were some marginal bu teams and he's all they had in those years....

what are you talking about??
Anthony Parker, Dwayne Funches, Deon Jackson, Billy Wright, Chad Kleine, and many others including James Baptist!!
If those teams during the peak of the Molinari years were, in your words, "marginal", then I can only wonder what word you are going to use when all's said and done, about Osiris Eldridge's years with no NCAA notice and a couple bad losses in the NIT!

[tornado]

Back to the stats, figures, and precise, indisputable numbers, that the ISU fans either dispute or ignore...

I already cited OE's numbers against post-season caliber opponents...and they are not too impressive-

http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=151443#post151443

usually the big time players come up big when it counts...

Osiris Eldridge has also played in a few non-conference games over his career against teams that are inside the top 40 RPI
(and there aren't many because of ISU's terrible scheduling) and in Valley Tourney semi's and Finals....
and I figure those are the most important games against the strongest opponents...
games where ISU really needed a great performance from OE...
so I went back to his freshman year and here are OE's stats in all those such games....

2006-2007 -
11/13 vs Florida State, 0-4, 0-3 from 3pt, 2pts (L)

2007-2008 -
11/23 vs. IU, 3-10, 0-5 from 3pt, 7 pts (L)
3/8 vs. UNI, 5-16, 3-7 from 3pt, 13 pts (W)
3/9 vs. Drake, 6-17, 2-9 from 3pt, 14pts (huge 79-49 L)

2008-2009 - (no games against Top 40 teams)
3/7 vs.CU, 8-14, 4-5, 21 pts (W)
3/8 vs. UNI, 8-19, 5-14, 21 pts (L)

combined stats in these games ..30-83 (36%), 14-43 (32.5%), 13 ppg



so I know I have arbitrarily selected these games, but you know...this is what the evaluators look at...
these are the games where the TV cameras are rolling and the scouts are present...
OE's combined stats for all these games from both of my posts...
(arguably) the NINE MOST IMPORTANT games of Eldridge's career--
44-143 (30.7%), 20-71 (28.1%), and barely into double figures scoring...as the team went 3-6.

Time will tell...and if ISU gets to the post-season in 2010, I wish them success and hope OE has great games,
because the Valley desperately needs a stronger image that'll be attained only with some
non-conference success and post-season success.

[mexicobufan]

I truly did not mean to start a thread that would get ugly. I know OE is a great player and I would not have compared TB to him if I didnt think so. My point was that if you look at their stats you could make a case that TB is as good or better than OE. People on here have said that OE is a scorer but look at the PPG compared to the number of shots taken per game and I would take TB's numbers any day. [I] was making a point that TB is a great player and he is only a sophomore, not that OE isnt a solid player.

[dogsrus]

I truly did not mean to start a thread that would get ugly. I know OE is a great player and I would not have compared TB to him if I didnt think so. My point was that if you look at their stats you could make a case that TB is as good or better than OE. People on here have said that OE is a scorer but look at the PPG compared to the number of shots taken per game and I would take TB's numbers any day. [I] was making a point that TB is a great player and he is only a sophomore, not that OE isnt a solid player.

Nothing wrong with "stirin up" the rivalry a bit...intended or not.

Again....OE is the better player right now but TB's ceiling is higher IMO.

[tornado]

facts are facts, they are neither pretty nor ugly