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Valley Down? No good wins and some early season losses
... despite 24-25 wins for two straight years, and this season will likely make it three.
not so fast...after last night's game, where they struggled to beat a really weak UIC team, I have to think they won't get to 24-25 even with those cupcakes they have lined up.
BTW - Pomeroy now has the Redbirds heading where they belong..
he has them rated 8th in the MVC despite being 3-0 and has their SOS at 326.
not so fast...after last night's game, where they struggled to beat a really weak UIC team, I have to think they won't get to 24-25 even with those cupcakes they have lined up.
BTW - Pomeroy now has the Redbirds heading where they belong..
he has them rated 8th in the MVC despite being 3-0 and has their SOS at 326.
As TAS has pointed out earlier in this thread, it's way too early to worry about these numbers. Currently Kentucky, Oklahoma, Prov. and Michigan are just some of the schools ranked behind ISU right now. Just goes to show that some are spending way too much time pouring over numbers this early in the season.
I believe ISU is doing no one in the Valley, including themselves, any favors with their incredibly weak scheduling, but if numbers do not lie the last two seasons their RPI was way higher than ours.
2007-2008 RPI
ISU 37
BU 104
2008-2009 RPI
ISU 47
BU 98
They have also landed in better tournaments both seasons. We seem to want to beat this issue into the ground without looking at the facts.
Apparently they don't care and when you look at the above numbers who can blame them.
The whole point is not that ISU is putting up better numbers.
The whole point of criticizing ISU is that their schedule brings down the SoS of all teams in the conference. To put it another way, we don't care if ISU harms itself. We DO care if they harm the conference as a whole.
I agree with you on the SOS numbers, but really with this much of a spread regarding RPI who is really doing more damage? Team A at #47 or Team B at #98. Isn't SOS factored into a team's RPI? Just asking.
Oh no.....here we go again. The same tired beaten down arguments with pomeroy, rpi, etc. and how we shouldn't use them while T still uses them to prove a point....this got old quickly last year and it's already gotten old this year with just this thread.
simple point - if you win against good opponents, then your RPI will NOT plummet and your SOS will not be 326..
so no matter how early and how unwilling some are to accept facts, the data is just data and there is no law against citing it and discussing it.
If their SOS or RPI was all that much better than Bradley's you can be sure the ISU fans would have 10 threads going on it.
I agree with you on the SOS numbers, but really with this much of a spread regarding RPI who is really doing more damage? Team A at #47 or Team B at #98. Isn't SOS factored into a team's RPI? Just asking.
It's actually a lot closer than you'd think.
Warning: Math Ahead
For the part of the RPI formula that is 50% SoS, Team A has a better record than Team B and therefore is more beneficial.
For the part of the RPI formula that is 25% SoS, Team B contributes better to the Valley than Team A.
Now the question is, basically, is Team B's difference in contribution in the second category more than twice as better as Team A's difference in contribution in the first category? Without typing all the math out, I'll say that it's very close.
Now, for Team A and their 47 RPI. They can maintain that same RPI ranking by playing a tougher schedule and losing a couple more games. Therefore, their RPI stays at 47, but the schedule boost gets spread around to its opponents (namely, the other Valley schools).
Remember, it's the actual strength of schedule and records in terms of winning percentage that counts in the formula, not the actual ranking from 1 to 340. So just because a team is higher in the RPI doesn't quite mean they're "contributing more" to the RPIs of their opponents. Close, but not quite.
Thanks TAS. I understand the fluidity of the numbers as they change day to day. It really becomes a "snapshot." Pomeroy has Kentucky at #175. Who thinks that will stay? DePaul was #1. Really? I just think we get bogged down in pouring over ratings, RPIs and SOS way too early in the season. I'll make a bet that when we stomp all over Presbyterian our numbers will fall, only to be made up for in Vegas.
Personally, I don't care where we are now, I care where we are in March.
I don't know about you, but the Valley is looking a bit stronger after tonight with WSU beating Iowa, Indiana St beating W. Kentucky, and UNI beating Boston College last night. We just have to let the season play out as always before evaluating.
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