Post ISU game comments

[wizard1]

DSE should clearly get max. minutes and probably should start. He is strong, tough, good defense, and he can add drive and/or kick to an offense that has been almost devoid of this. A strong drive & kick threat will change the way people defense us. I have always liked EM but emotion aside, JL must play the people that help us the most. At this point and based on all of last year and this year thus far, DSE is clearly better than EM. With EM in the lineup, we are virtually 4 on 5 offensively. EM can be a very good bench player where ball handling is needed. With a lineup that includes DSE and TB, our toughness factor goes up BIG TIME and we need this badly. Rebounding and illegal screens should get handled by our coaches so I won't worry too much about this YET.

[LG281]

Had to start a new thread huh? We're already talking about this elsewhere.

[Da Coach]

DSE will get more time, and I expect Milos will also. The other guards have to step it up. Chris has been reluctant to shoot, but some of that is because of the hand that was "sprained" in the Lewis game. He will increase his offensive game in the upcoming games.
I do not see a reversal of either of the two freshmen who decided to redshirt.

[chitown fanatic]

DSE should clearly get max. minutes and probably should start. He is strong, tough, good defense, and he can add drive and/or kick to an offense that has been almost devoid of this. A strong drive & kick threat will change the way people defense us. I have always liked EM but emotion aside, JL must play the people that help us the most. At this point and based on all of last year and this year thus far, DSE is clearly better than EM. With EM in the lineup, we are virtually 4 on 5 offensively. EM can be a very good bench player where ball handling is needed. With a lineup that includes DSE and TB, our toughness factor goes up BIG TIME and we need this badly. Rebounding and illegal screens should get handled by our coaches so I won't worry too much about this YET.

Ok, I was just as impressed with DSE as anyone last night, but let's face it, we were playing a middle of the pack big sky team who had no business even being close and DSE was one of the few guys who showed up to play. We did the same thing we've done time and again under LEs, play down or up to the level of our competition. With that said, let's see how good he is against better teams or even the next two opponents after they've seen film. I'm not saying he won't be good, but I'm not ready to annoint him a starter or 25+ minute guy yet

[SaintLouBrave22]

Ok, I was just as impressed with DSE as anyone last night, but let's face it, we were playing a middle of the pack big sky team who had no business even being close and DSE was one of the few guys who showed up to play. We did the same thing we've done time and again under LEs, play down or up to the level of our competition. With that said, let's see how good he is against better teams or even the next two opponents after they've seen film. I'm not saying he won't be good, but I'm not ready to annoint him a starter or 25+ minute guy yet

So...if you're saying what you're saying, then maybe you can give your thoughts on Eddren since ya know, we did play a middle of the pack team and all...


Has he done enough to still deserve a starting spot?

[chitown fanatic]

So...if you're saying what you're saying, then maybe you can give your thoughts on Eddren since ya know, we did play a middle of the pack team and all...


Has he done enough to still deserve a starting spot?

Eddren was awful last night. He had his doors blown off almost every trip down in the 1st half. about 20 of the 42 points in the paint they had are on him. All that said, I'll use the same argument...it's one game. Eddren has done a much better job at not turning the ball over towards the end of last season and in the exhibition and BYU games. I also believe he didn't turn it over last night either. He needs to look to shoot more and get more of the other guys involved, but I'll take his experience at thsi point until I see more of DSE. happy?

[ER3]

Totally agree, wizard.

I loved what DSE showed last night...he's a bigger guard, he played great defense, wasn't tentative on his outside shot, and was really strong and fearless when taking the ball to the hoop...
I realize he is a freshman and this is only one game...but we need players with that kind of skillset on the floor...guys that have the ability to be a threat from the outside and can break down a defense and finish at the rim...
Without this type of multi-dimensional player on the floor, we become a very passive team that is easy to defend...and not to pile on Eddren here, but he just hasn't shown the abilty to be any type of threat on offense right now...and until that changes and he shows the ability to hit an outside shot or to penetrate and finish at the rim, I don't see how he can be given significant minutes...

[lefty]

It's hard to say how good we are offensively. ISU had a 6 minute period in the second half but other than that they were a lousy defensive team IMO.

[BUconnorD]

Ok, I was just as impressed with DSE as anyone last night, but let's face it, we were playing a middle of the pack big sky team who had no business even being close and DSE was one of the few guys who showed up to play. We did the same thing we've done time and again under LEs, play down or up to the level of our competition. With that said, let's see how good he is against better teams or even the next two opponents after they've seen film. I'm not saying he won't be good, but I'm not ready to annoint him a starter or 25+ minute guy yet

Well Said

So...if you're saying what you're saying, then maybe you can give your thoughts on Eddren since ya know, we did play a middle of the pack team and all...


Has he done enough to still deserve a starting spot?

More well said


EM played pretty poorly. However, I do not like the idea of a freshman running the O...not to mention a freshman that has had 1 good game against a "middle of the pack team"

IF you're ranking the 3 PGs...you gotta break it down a bit:

skills:
DSE
EM
SM

Leadership:
SM
DSE
EM

A/TO Ratio:
EM
DSE
SM

(IMO...welcome to start the debate on these)

PG's need to be a leader to set the tone for the game...do we want a freshman who has had 1 good game against a middle of the road team? Or a 3 year veteran who has played in big games against: MSU, UofI, Drake, Creighton, ISU, SIU and many others.

Not taking anything away from DSE...great talent, can't wait to have him for another 4 years.
but why rush the starting, let's give him some big bench minutes

[Da Coach]

I guess I would only remind fans of what is called the "backup quarterback syndrome".
Freshman often are hailed as saviors because of one or two good showings. Remember J.J. Tauai's impressive performance in the Red-White scrimmage his freshman year? He never quite lived up to expectations some fans had for him. And though not a freshman, Tyrone Cole-Scott looked awesome in his first game (exhibition against Augustana).
I expect DSE to get more playing time and he'll eventually be a very good player, but he'll have his ups and downs. I hope people won't be too hard on him if he isn't as consistent as Dodie would have been.

[lefty]

I guess I would only remind fans of what is called the "backup quarterback syndrome".
Freshman often are hailed as saviors because of one or two good showings. Remember J.J. Tauai's impressive performance in the Red-White scrimmage his freshman year? He never quite lived up to expectations some fans had for him. And though not a freshman, Tyrone Cole-Scott looked awesome in his first game (exhibition against Augustana).
I expect DSE to get more playing time and he'll eventually be a very good player, but he'll have his ups and downs. I hope people won't be too hard on him if he isn't as consistent as Dodie would have been.

I agree with you DC.....it is just one game

[houstontxbrave]

After looking at the box score, it is very impressive that we only had 8 turnovers in our 2nd game of the season. Excellent that our guards are taking care of the ball.

McCain, his biggest liablity is he simply does not look to shoot the ball, he reminds me of Billy Wright after Wright had the injury to his eye, he simply stopped shooting the ball. There was an instance in the 2nd half where EM had moved to an open area about 10 feet out and instead of rising up and scoring he continued to dribble until he was under the basket and then passed to Warren for a 3 pt shot. He has to shoot the ball.

It was an early season game and we played likely less then 35 hours after a game on the road in Utah. No excuses but playing essentially a back to back is not easy especially in game 2. I fully expect a much better effort next Sunday.

[ER3]

I guess I would only remind fans of what is called the "backup quarterback syndrome".
Freshman often are hailed as saviors because of one or two good showings. Remember J.J. Tauai's impressive performance in the Red-White scrimmage his freshman year? He never quite lived up to expectations some fans had for him. And though not a freshman, Tyrone Cole-Scott looked awesome in his first game (exhibition against Augustana).
I expect DSE to get more playing time and he'll eventually be a very good player, but he'll have his ups and downs. I hope people won't be too hard on him if he isn't as consistent as Dodie would have been.

Agreed...it is only one game...and there is no reason to believe that DSE won't have the normal "good night-bad night" type of year that most freshman go through. He isn't "the answer", I don't think he should be starting for us at this point...I'd actually like to see a starting lineup of SM, CR, AW, TB, and WE...with DSE being the first guard off the bench...

I know that there are a lot of people out here that are firmly in Eddren's camp and think he should continue playing major minutes, but I just don't see it at this point...I can see him as a nice depth guy off the bench that can come in and give us a lot of energy on the defensive end in spots, but he just is bringing so little to the game on the offensive end right now...The fact that he isn't turning the ball over is nice...but he isn't shooting well, he isn't looking to take the ball to the rim off of penetration, and if those trends continue, Valley teams will be sagging off of him all game long, they won't respect his penetration attempts, and that will make things doubly difficult on the perimeter for the other guys on the floor...

[bu fan 9]

EM defense last night was a lot worse than his offense.

[SaintLouBrave22]

Agreed...it is only one game...and there is no reason to believe that DSE won't have the normal "good night-bad night" type of year that most freshman go through. He isn't "the answer", I don't think he should be starting for us at this point...I'd actually like to see a starting lineup of SM, CR, AW, TB, and WE...with DSE being the first guard off the bench...

I know that there are a lot of people out here that are firmly in Eddren's camp and think he should continue playing major minutes, but I just don't see it at this point...I can see him as a nice depth guy off the bench that can come in and give us a lot of energy on the defensive end in spots, but he just is bringing so little to the game on the offensive end right now...The fact that he isn't turning the ball over is nice...but he isn't shooting well, he isn't looking to take the ball to the rim off of penetration, and if those trends continue, Valley teams will be sagging off of him all game long, they won't respect his penetration attempts, and that will make things doubly difficult on the perimeter for the other guys on the floor...

Great points and I agree w/ your lineup although I am not sold on Sammy being our PG either as he dribbles way too much, forces shots, and moves across the floor with his head down. BUT at this point, Sammy should get the nod with DSE getting plenty of minutes off the bench. Also, the good thing about DSE is that he's a bigger guard so we can play him and Sammy together and move Sammy to the 2 where I think he fits better despite his size.

Eddren is going to start having instances like last year where guys just dare him to shoot and its going to make our offense even worse if they just start doubling Andrew or throwing a zone where they sag off him because he's so deficient on offense...

He needs to get better on both ends of the floor if he continues to play quality minutes.


Not only that, the team needs consistency, and thats why Roberts and Warren should always be in the starting 5.


Also, I will just say that it will be a tough year if the coach continues to eliminate the teams momentum through poor substitution and rotation patterns.