point guard

[Bradleyguy10]

I'm with you amc. No where do I see a "rip" on this thread but merely stating that the BYU game clearly drew a line in the sand between SM and EM. We don't need EM to come in the same time as SM and who will take those minutes??? TAYLOR BROWN!! EM should purely be a back up to SM. Think of how you thought of SM his 1st game sophomore year compared to EM on Friday....it's absolutely no contest. No shot at EM; he's talented but doesn't bring enough to the table to be on at the same time as EM. It creates too much of a size difference. We looked like kids playing men through much of that game. Again I agree with amc..this isn't based on one game. He has been here an entire season and so far in one game and an exhibition of his 2nd season he has yet to flatter me with his shooting.

100% on your side mckillip to everything you've said.

[shaunguth]

A thread devoted to ripping a kid after 1 game seems like scapegoating to me. This isn't targeting you, just more of a general observation. McCain isn't that much smaller than SM, so the size argument doesn't hold much water. Plus he rebounds better than most of our bigs anyways. DSE went O-fer from the field and the line, and some are pining for more? Come on. 14 minutes was good for him, as were 24 for EM.

Yeah.....I've been wondering why some around here are so high on DSE at this point. Also, I absolutely hated it when we had SM, EM, and DSE on the floor at the same time. IMO, there is absolutely no reason for that!

[tornado]

..Dodie Dunson is a 5th year senior ...

This doesn't change your point but I thought I'd clarify...
Dodie went to prep school then 4 years of college (ISU, Vincennes, BU) but is a true 4th year senior.

[dogsrus]

Explain to me again why we're throwing someone under the bus after his 1st game of his sophomore year? Dodie Dunson is a 5th year senior that went scoreless, missed 2 front ends, and grabbed a total of 1 rebound and had 1 assist in 25 minutes. Where's the thread ripping on him? Give me a break guys. Give me a break.

Thank you....

[ser_solace]

geez. I'm surprised some are ready to give-up on Eddren so soon after ONE GAME in his SOPHMORE year.

[thefish7]

Yeah not only what the others have said, Eddren was taking shots on Friday, they just didn't go in. Last year he didn't shoot much, this year, if he can convert 30% from three he'll be an excellent all around player for us.

[tornado]

I like Eddren and I think he's gonna be a fine PG for us...

in the first game of his soph year, he got us started and scored the first points, he had 6 pts, 4 rebs, and only one TO.

Here are some comparative stats for freshman seasons...EM compares quite favorably--
McCain - 6 pts, 3 rebs, 3 asst
Ruffin -- 6 pts, 3 rebs, 4.7 asst
Dotzler-- 6 pts, 2 rebs, 4 asst
Mullins --5.5 pts, 2 rebs, 3 asst
Kwadzo- 2.6 pts, 1 rpg, 1 asst
Cello --- 5 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 asst
Gillingham-6 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 asst
Avery Sheets (Butler kid who killed us)- 5 pts, 1 rpg, 1 asst
D. McCamey- 8 ppg, 3 rpg, 3 asst
Evan Turner-8 ppg, 4 rpg, 2.6 asst

[jasonpeoria911]

In my opinion, Eddren is more of a complete player, his points, rebounds and assists are often in line with each other, where as SM generally has more points than assists. I think that's what Les sees in Eddren, he gets the team involved more instead of worrying about shooting the ball.

Jason

[ph]

In my opinion, Eddren is more of a complete player, his points, rebounds and assists are often in line with each other, where as SM generally has more points than assists. I think that's what Les sees in Eddren, he gets the team involved more instead of worrying about shooting the ball.

Jason

odd because I think EM had a higher high school ppg # than SM..

although part of SM's shooting #'s have been forced due to a team need when AW got injured last year.

[jasonpeoria911]

Yes, EM did have a higher High School PPG but that seems to have changed in college. I think EM was playing against players a lot slower in high school but is going up against a lot faster players now and in turn is having to rely on his jump shot more instead of easy layups.

Jason

odd because I think EM had a higher high school ppg # than SM..

although part of SM's shooting #'s have been forced due to a team need when AW got injured last year.

[Bradleyguy10]

I'm not sure if anyone on here is saying EM isn't good. He is good and will be even better in the future for us. But the simple fact is we don't need him on the court at the same time as SM. No one is throwing anyone under the bus.

[amckillip]

I like Eddren and I think he's gonna be a fine PG for us...

in the first game of his soph year, he got us started and scored the first points, he had 6 pts, 4 rebs, and only one TO.

Here are some comparative stats for freshman seasons...EM compares quite favorably--
McCain - 6 pts, 3 rebs, 3 asst
Ruffin -- 6 pts, 3 rebs, 4.7 asst
Dotzler-- 6 pts, 2 rebs, 4 asst
Mullins --5.5 pts, 2 rebs, 3 asst
Kwadzo- 2.6 pts, 1 rpg, 1 asst
Cello --- 5 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 asst
Gillingham-6 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 asst
Avery Sheets (Butler kid who killed us)- 5 pts, 1 rpg, 1 asst
D. McCamey- 8 ppg, 3 rpg, 3 asst
Evan Turner-8 ppg, 4 rpg, 2.6 asst

Ok, you can't only round up for McCain and down for the others... And lets throw in FG% just for fun

McCain 5.6 ppg, 2.6 r, 3.1 a, .294 fg%, 25.0 min
Ruffin 6.3 ppg, 3.0 r, 4.7 a, .374 fg%, 24.1 min
Turner 8.5 ppg, 4.4 r, 2.6 a, .470 fg%, 27.1
.
.
Maniscalco 7.7 ppg, 1.7 r, 3.0 a, .417 fg%, 27.1min

And I didn't even check the others to see if you manipulated those stats. Stop rounding up subjectively, and include a little bit more info, and the story starts to change...

I like EM, I really do, but the comments saying he's better than SM just can't be backed up. AND if we want to go play a bigger lineup, the best way to do that is to not start EM. He did great when called upon last year, but the situation has changed and it's time to readjust our philosophy.



SELF-EDIT: Upon a booth review I lied originally EM FG% was .412...

[dogsrus]

I'd like to see him come off the bench.....a few questions though. Is SM a pg or a shooting guard? Would you then play AW at the 2?

I think EM is our "true" pg and JL wants to keep grooming him for that spot. But IF this is what JL is thinking couldn't we still groom him while in the backup role?

I still say SM, AW, CR,TB and WE....
EM, DD, MK, SS/AT...and if S and AT are playing well at the 5 you can rotate WE at both 4 and 5 spots as needed.

[Da Coach]

Is SM a pg or a shooting guard?

Sam is what coaches like to call a classic combo guard. He can play the point effectively, but may be better off the point.

[amckillip]

I'd like to see him come off the bench.....a few questions though. Is SM a pg or a shooting guard? Would you then play AW at the 2?

I think EM is our "true" pg and JL wants to keep grooming him for that spot. But IF this is what JL is thinking couldn't we still groom him while in the backup role?

I still say SM, AW, CR,TB and WE....
EM, DD, MK, SS/AT...and if S and AT are playing well at the 5 you can rotate WE at both 4 and 5 spots as needed.

I agree with everything here, but I see SM as a PG, personally, he has a shot, but a PG with a good shot opens up the floor quite a bit. And I don't think there's any doubt SM would be 1, and AW would be a 2 in the 'BCS" leagues, but in the valley we have a much harder time recruiting bigs, so positions often get adjusted...