The MVC Preseason Poll

[tornado]

B-10...we were as good as ISU last year and proved it head to head...
even though we were devastated with the loss of TWO starters and one was our best returning player...while ISU was especially strong last year, no injuries and the one year effect of a mature senior transfer..

So now we have virtually everyone back, while ISU has an injury and lost their top scorer from last year...
So, I do not see ISU as stronger than BU.....can you explain why you do?

[Nacho]

B-10...we were as good as ISU last year and proved it head to head...
even though we were devastated with the loss of TWO starters and one was our best returning player...while ISU was especially strong last year, no injuries and the one year effect of a mature senior transfer..

So now we have virtually everyone back, while ISU has an injury and lost their top scorer from last year...
So, I do not see ISU as stronger than BU.....can you explain why you do?

Bobby Hill was injured last year... He would have been the starter at the 4 position- Champ would have moved to the 3 position where he belonged, O to the 2, and Lloyd to the 1... Instead O had to play the 2/3 with Holloway playing the same. If Holloway could have come off of the bench instead of being forced to start- it would have added much needed depth off of the bench. You may not think so... but that would have made a huge difference

[Bradleyguy10]

B-10...we were as good as ISU last year and proved it head to head...
even though we were devastated with the loss of TWO starters and one was our best returning player...while ISU was especially strong last year, no injuries and the one year effect of a mature senior transfer..

So now we have virtually everyone back, while ISU has an injury and lost their top scorer from last year...
So, I do not see ISU as stronger than BU.....can you explain why you do?

Yeah we proved it head to head I guess..each team winning by 4 on their home court, but ISU still beat us in the Valley. Playing the same schedule they got more wins than us bottom line, they were better. This year I just see explosive years from 3 of their starters. They have 2 all mvc worthy guards as well as a center. We have question marks at center once again. I think we can beat ISU in the standings maybe just due to our depth compared to theirs, but if no one gets injured on ISU I see them as being a very very formidable team. They lose less at home (lately) than we do and that could be the deciding factor.

I feel like right now they are better due to their starting lineup, but I think our bench is better. If AW, TB, and WE are all as good as people are suggesting than yeah maybe we are the better team, but I'll play the wait and see game. I'm tired of going into seasons thinking so and so will be MVC POY worthy and a future NBA pick or whatever it is...I'll wait until I see it. I don't want sunshine and daisy's blown up my a** all off season.

[AZ BU Fan]

I think Suellentrop's comments about BU's prospects are pretty accurate....

"6. Bradley ??“ Jim Les pulled off a fantastic coaching feat last season by pushing the Braves into fourth (by two games) despite injury problems. The Braves are strong in the backcourt and shaky up front. Les??™ teams have never finished above fourth in seven seasons, so it??™s hard for me to pick this team much higher. The Braves, however, are in that group that is hard to peg. Third place is a possibility, especially if a big man emerges and guard Andrew Warren returns strong after missing 2008-09 with an injury."

BU finishing 1st or 2nd second in the Valley would require the same kind of "special seasons" Drake and UNI had the past couple years - Could happen if everything breaks right for the Braves, and, their difficult early season schedule doesn't take it out of them

[shaunguth]

Yeah we proved it head to head I guess..each team winning by 4 on their home court, but ISU still beat us in the Valley. Playing the same schedule they got more wins than us bottom line, they were better. This year I just see explosive years from 3 of their starters. They have 2 all mvc worthy guards as well as a center. We have question marks at center once again. I think we can beat ISU in the standings maybe just due to our depth compared to theirs, but if no one gets injured on ISU I see them as being a very very formidable team. They lose less at home (lately) than we do and that could be the deciding factor.

I feel like right now they are better due to their starting lineup, but I think our bench is better. If AW, TB, and WE are all as good as people are suggesting than yeah maybe we are the better team, but I'll play the wait and see game. I'm tired of going into seasons thinking so and so will be MVC POY worthy and a future NBA pick or whatever it is...I'll wait until I see it. I don't want sunshine and daisy's blown up my a** all off season.

Ok....now take away their top returning scorer and a starting center. I wonder which team would finish ahead of the other?

[dogsrus]

[QUOTE=AZ BU Fan;141867]I think Suellentrop's comments about BU's prospects are pretty accurate....

" Les??™ teams have never finished above fourth in seven seasons, so it??™s hard for me to pick this team much higher.



We HAVE to change that one glaring fact that makes, IMO, BU just above mediocre for JL's tenure.

I'll be the first to admit that he's been snakebit more than ANY coach in the MVC with devastating injuries but, the bottom line is, no one cares about excuses/reasons.

I think the talent is there to get it done. NO excuses. Top 3 or THIS BU fan will be disappointed.

[tornado]

...Suellentrop's comments...

" Les??™ teams have never finished above fourth in seven seasons, so it??™s hard for me to pick this team much higher..

so let's see...the guy's job is to analyze the 2009-2010 teams in the MVC and make a prediction...

but instead, he looks backwards over the past seasons and says that's what he uses when making his predictions....
no wonder he picked UNI 5th last year and missed on Drake by a mile in 2007, picking them 9th..

As I review his predictions the last couple years, I can see now exactly what he does...he simply lists the teams each year, pretty much exactly how they finished the year before!
That's why he missed so badly with SIU as well....
Hmmm.....pretty low-effort analysis if you ask me....

[AZ BU Fan]

Hi Tornado
I might have missed it, but what is your prediction for the upcoming MVC season?

The guy said picking 3-7 this year in the MVC is pretty difficult since all the 3-7 teams all have plusses and minuses....He said if Warren and BU front line folks step up, BU finishes 3rd. Do you see it differently?

UNI returning all the starters and Creighton being co league champ last year and with a pretty good coach/program makes sense for them to rank them 1-2 or vice versa...

Seriously, we don't have a proven center, our star shooting guard has had multiple foot surgeries and hasn't played in a year, our future star forward/center has no history and is coming off a serious knee injury. We have a talented, undersized 4 who hasn't logged big minutes yet. Our returning guards, while full of promise and hopefully improved, didn't shoot the lights out last year...We have recruits we really like but have no history at D-I.

I know I am probably a half empty kid of guy, but BU is going to have to step up this year and win to prove the "outsider" prognosticators wrong this year and get the same respect in the MVC say Creighton/SIU do. Either that or there is a giant media conspiracy against BU which is why they are never picked higher, none of their returning players were recognized last year in the post season, or in the pre season picks that we know of.

I hope the coaches in the league pick BU to finish higher than the media, that would mean something...

[dogsrus]

Hi Tornado
I might have missed it, but what is your prediction for the upcoming MVC season?

The guy said picking 3-7 this year in the MVC is pretty difficult since all the 3-7 teams all have plusses and minuses....He said if Warren and BU front line folks step up, BU finishes 3rd. Do you see it differently?

UNI returning all the starters and Creighton being co league champ last year and with a pretty good coach/program makes sense for them to rank them 1-2 or vice versa...

Seriously, we don't have a proven center, our star shooting guard has had multiple foot surgeries and hasn't played in a year, our future star forward/center has no history and is coming off a serious knee injury. We have a talented, undersized 4 who hasn't logged big minutes yet. Our returning guards, while full of promise and hopefully improved, didn't shoot the lights out last year...We have recruits we really like but have no history at D-I.

I know I am probably a half empty kid of guy, but BU is going to have to step up this year and win to prove the "outsider" prognosticators wrong this year and get the same respect in the MVC say Creighton/SIU do. Either that or there is a giant media conspiracy against BU which is why they are never picked higher, none of their returning players were recognized last year in the post season, or in the pre season picks that we know of.

I hope the coaches in the league pick BU to finish higher than the media, that would mean something...

I agree...I think the guy did a good job. Wether it turns out that way is yet to be seen but he sums it up nicely.

Lots of good thing have to (and can) fall in place for BU to finish higher then they ever have (4th) in the Valley under JL's tenure.

Lots of question marks....its up to JL and the team to answer those. I think we can but I understand how some prognosticators and many BU fans have questions and understand the reality of it all.

Bottom line is its ONE mans opinion and as long as he did his homework, like THIS guy obviously did, I have no problem with it. The opinions are NOT what matter...its the results.

[tornado]

Seriously, we don't have a proven center.....

I see people making that point...but tell me just who is Wichita's, or Creighton's, or Indiana State's, or SIU's, or even UNI's "proven center".
Those are most of the teams that they are picking higher than BU, and none has a PROVEN center.
The strongest in that group of course would be Lawson and Eglseder...
but both have been injury prone. Lawson has a 7 ppg career scoring avg, and in his 4th year at Creighton, has never averaged more than 8.5 ppg and 4.8 rpg.
Seriously...Chris Roberts gave us as good of production as that.

And Eglseder has also missed games frequently with a variety of recurring ailments, and his 10 pt/6 reb career best year in 08-09 was in the same ballpark as the numbers of Carlton Fay or Wade Knapp...not names that we are touting as "proven centers".
Almost every year in memory..the talk in the preseason has been the guard strength and how it'll translate into a solid season in the MVC...but oddly, now everyone is ignoring guard strength and talking "proven centers" in a league that has had only one center play or get drafted in the NBA since Benoit Benjamin!


So Nothing against all those guys...but I just don't see what you and they are pointing at and accepting as "evidence" for proven centers.
Personally, as I pointed out from Suellentrop's own words...
I believe they make their picks by 99% subjecting means -- more on how the teams did last year and how they'd LIKE to see them finish this year!!
...not objective....then they have to make up something to disguise their subjecting motives and point at BU's lack of a center.
How about Creighton's lack of post players? How about the fact that ISU is going to have to play a lot of minutes with guys who are completely new to D-I or the fact that ISU is lacking a real or experienced PG and so is Creighton.
One prognosticator picked Indiana State ahead of BU on the strength of their guards!
Personally, I think (in a guard oriented league) BU has FIVE guards that can start on almost any other team in the Valley! (SM, DD, CR, AW, EM)
We were inundated last year with the eyepopping stats of the UNI guards and how FOUR of them were averaging double digits!!!

But, if you would please place fantasy aside and check reality....how about this...

Here are the actual most recent scoring abverages of BU's guards vs. UNI's...

BU: .......AW 13.2, SM-12.6, DD-10.7, CR 8.7, EM 5.6
UNI: Kwadzo-11.8, Ali-9.6, Moran-8.4, Dunham 3.8

As for my thoughts...I think BU, CU, UNI will battle for the 1-2-3 spots, and it'll come down to injuries and depth that determines the champ.
I think the same four guys will be at the bottom of the Valley InSU, UE, MSU, DU. And I think ISU, SIU, and WSU will be battling to wear white jerseys in St. Louis.

[DannyCooksey]

B-10...we were as good as ISU last year and proved it head to head...
even though we were devastated with the loss of TWO starters and one was our best returning player...while ISU was especially strong last year, no injuries and the one year effect of a mature senior transfer..

So now we have virtually everyone back, while ISU has an injury and lost their top scorer from last year...
So, I do not see ISU as stronger than BU.....can you explain why you do?

Who is the injured player on ISU? If you mean Bobby Hill well........he also was injured all of last season and was penciled in as a starter prior to the season. So you claiming we had "no injuries" last year is simply not true. We just don't use them as excuses if we finish lower than we hope. That's the difference.

[tornado]

you need to keep up better with your own team...

[DannyCooksey]

you need to keep up better with your own team...

J-Rob? Austin Hill is 100%. Man.......you know more about my own team than I do. that's incredible......and very telling. As far as I know we have no significant injuries. i give up. who is the mystery player with the injury?

[shockerfan13]

so let's see...the guy's job is to analyze the 2009-2010 teams in the MVC and make a prediction...

but instead, he looks backwards over the past seasons and says that's what he uses when making his predictions....
no wonder he picked UNI 5th last year and missed on Drake by a mile in 2007, picking them 9th..

As I review his predictions the last couple years, I can see now exactly what he does...he simply lists the teams each year, pretty much exactly how they finished the year before!
That's why he missed so badly with SIU as well....
Hmmm.....pretty low-effort analysis if you ask me....

Who predicted UNI or Drake right? Or even SIU last year for that matter? LOL NO ONE!!! At least no one in the actual media anywhere in the country. And like it or not...a LOT of media people will pick according to a trend. It sucks, but it's true. That's why people will pick Indiana St in the bottom 5 for eternity until they have a break out year...regardless of the talent they are bringing in.

And really, where they pick teams to finish has alot more to do with than what's on paper. Perhaps some feel that Les just can't coach well enough to get the team in the top 3?? I PERSONALLY don't feel that way, but perhaps that is how some people feel.

[dogsrus]

[QUOTE=tornado;141909]

Here are the actual most recent scoring abverages of BU's guards vs. UNI's...

BU: .......AW 13.2, SM-12.6, DD-10.7, CR 8.7, EM 5.6
UNI: Kwadzo-11.8, Ali-9.6, Moran-8.4, Dunham 3.8



SO why do you thing they finished 1st and we were 4th......coaching...post play...?????