Best players in the state, regardless of class

[tornado]

but if we eliminate the guys on that list who come from nowhere near Chicago (which was the initial claim, that BU doesn't land enough Chicago kids)
then ONLY SIU has more Chicago kids right now than Bradley does.
Even Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, and Purdue combine for the same numbers as Bradley has!!!

and in 2009-2010 we'll have six kids on the roster from Illinois, and two more from contiguous states.

[Da Coach]

OK, Dillard and Hare came at a rather steep price- SIU hired Lance Irvin as an extremely high paid assistant coach. He's the son of the head of the AAU program those kids came from. Please don't tell me there wasn't a quid pro quo.

Bradley was one of only a handful of D1 schools who did recruit Jon Moran, but felt they had enough combo guards. Maybe he was one, in retrospect, they should have stayed on, but a hundred other coaches weren't even sure he could play at D1.

Bradley was also involved with the recruiting of many of the others, but I don't see any there that are difference-makers, or that Bradley didn't already have other players who were judged to be as good. Robinson, Richards, Lacey, Martin, and Evans haven't really shown much yet to use them as examples of kids that would have made Bradley a better team.

Again, you have to realize that if you get Carl Richards, maybe you don't get a Chris Roberts, who was one of Bradley's regular starters, contributors, and better defensive players last year. If you get Nick Evans or Isiah Martin, likely they would still be riding the bench for Bradley and they would not have been able to sign Theron Wilson, who was the last scholarship given 2 years ago. And I don't believe anyone here would trade Eddren McCain or Sam Maniscalco for Kavon Lacey.
So if Bradley had gotten any of those kids, maybe they would have been contributors a little, but I don't believe Bradley would have been better off. The only one of those kids who might turn out to be a real difference maker, or an All-MVC eventually, IMO, is Dillard, and Bradley could not have gotten him with what was expected of the schools recruiting him.

[SFP]

Iman Shumpert: GEORGIA TECH
Ben Brust: BCS CONFRENCE BOUND
Sam Maniscalco: Love the kid's game (Dad went to bradley)
Darius Smith: UCONN
Chris Colvin: IOWA STATE
Drew Crawford: NORTHWESTERN
Diamond Taylor: WISCONSIN
Michael Haynes: JUCO
Joe Bertrand: ILLINOIS
Cully Payne: IOWA
Jordan Threloff: BCS CONFRENCE BOUND
Alex Rossi: BCS CONFRENCE BOUND
Anthony Johnson: PURDUE

How bout we go after kids we can actually have a chance at getting. Look at all those schools and ask why would you choose Bradly over that. Not saying you shouldn't try to get some of these guys but how bout being realistic. Bradley is not going to get someone one of these schools offered very often, if ever...

Also, its one thing to recruit a kid. Its another to land a recruit. Maybe, its the coaches that can't produce recruits. Same thing Illinois and Bruce Weber got bashed for for not getting chicago or being involved with chicago kids. Then Jerrance Howard comes along and BAM .. a coach that has a connection to the kids, the school he is at, and a passion/purpose for recruiting..

Hey midstate I like that JL goes after the best. It's like going to the a dance and you either sit there with your buddies, have a few cold ones, talk about all the good looking girls and nothing else or go out there and take your best shot and finally one will say yes. In the meantime prior to the next dance you're working on your moves, a few cute funny pick up lines, buying some nice clothes, hair cut and working out a bit and before you know it the girls start at least talking to you and finally there's one that will say yes because they see the person you have worked to become and likes what they see. In respect to BU and recruiting:

1) JL works his tail off and is extremely confidant that his hard work will pay off
2) Does not hurt that others are checking you out even if they do not pick you
2) The new facilities will help us more then most people think
3) If you do not ask you'll never hear yes!

In the meantime he is getting great kids who are flying under the radar and eventually he'll land that monster recruit who'll fit in and get BU on the big time radar in which case recruiting will become that much eassier. You need to set the stage to get to this point and going after the best is part of the plan. I frankly do not care where he finds his recruits as long as they can play hoops and are good kids. I'd bet most of us on this board would rather not win the MVC if it means picking up a player who could bring a lot of negative baggage to the campus.

I'm not saying D Rose was a bad person but if Memphis gets hammered by the NCAA some there will be asking if he was worth it? The Chicago connection!

[Tone Bone]

OK, Dillard and Hare came at a rather steep price- SIU hired Lance Irvin as an extremely high paid assistant coach. He's the son of the head of the AAU program those kids came from. Please don't tell me there wasn't a quid pro quo.

Dillard didn't play for the Mac Irvin Fire. I think he played for MeanStreets, but I might be wrong. Hare did play for the Fire, and after de-committing from Oregon State, I'm sure his connection to the Irvin family is what helped him land in Carbondale.

Recruiting in Chicago is a tricky business and sometimes there are some underhanded deals involving AAU coaches, street agents, and the schools that these kids end up at. I'm not saying that all the kids are dirty, but there are enough of them that are to have doubts about all of them.

[saluki762]

OK, Dillard and Hare came at a rather steep price- SIU hired Lance Irvin as an extremely high paid assistant coach. He's the son of the head of the AAU program those kids came from. Please don't tell me there wasn't a quid pro quo.

Bradley was one of only a handful of D1 schools who did recruit Jon Moran, but felt they had enough combo guards. Maybe he was one, in retrospect, they should have stayed on, but a hundred other coaches weren't even sure he could play at D1.

Bradley was also involved with the recruiting of many of the others, but I don't see any there that are difference-makers, or that Bradley didn't already have other players who were judged to be as good. Robinson, Richards, Lacey, Martin, and Evans haven't really shown much yet to use them as examples of kids that would have made Bradley a better team.

Again, you have to realize that if you get Carl Richards, maybe you don't get a Chris Roberts, who was one of Bradley's regular starters, contributors, and better defensive players last year. If you get Nick Evans or Isiah Martin, likely they would still be riding the bench for Bradley and they would not have been able to sign Theron Wilson, who was the last scholarship given 2 years ago. And I don't believe anyone here would trade Eddren McCain or Sam Maniscalco for Kavon Lacey.
So if Bradley had gotten any of those kids, maybe they would have been contributors a little, but I don't believe Bradley would have been better off. The only one of those kids who might turn out to be a real difference maker, or an All-MVC eventually, IMO, is Dillard, and Bradley could not have gotten him with what was expected of the schools recruiting him.

Dillard commited and signed before Irvin. Irvin most likely helped with the Hare commitment but he hasn't help a whole lot.

[midstateknowitall]

If you are a school that is in Illinois you should make recruiting the state a priority. I think there is a need to recruit outside Illinois as well. All these other schools Wisconsin, Purdue, Iowa recruit and get kids from all overthere own state, not just Madison area, Lafayette area, or Iowa City area. Bradley somewhat does. They don't go much outside of the Peoria Area, like I stated before. If you call that recruiting the state and consider that getting kids from the STATE, wow)

Kevin Dillard played AAU for Meanstreets.


Jim Les has great passion and charisma for his job. He is very savy on how he talks and deals with the media. Very likeable in that sense. What has he done in his 7 or 8 years at BU. 1 NCAA (sweet 16) and 1 NIT? He was quoted on saying that Height is over rated and the only year he has been to the NCAA Tourney was when he had 7'1 Patrick O'Brien. The 2 crap tourneys they have been in the last 2 year (CBI & CIT) are a joke.

Can he coach? Thats a question I hear asked alot... When older Buescher was there it sure seemed like Les was doing a good job COACHING. Since older Buescher has left it doesn't seem to be the same COACH. Just a thought, not just from me but from alot of others I have talked to.

[tornado]

we've heard all these points before....and I don't disagree......
do we want better...of course, but so do nine other Valley teams, etc..

what it boils down to is whether the present guys are doing such a bad job that we need to intervene, make a change, or bring in someone new.

I know there are a few who endlessly post that we should do all those things, but the majority of rational people do not, and realize it is just such a tough business, and we are doing reasonably well with a very strong outlook, and that any major change right now would more likely be disasterous as helpful.

Again, outside of Butler (and don't go back further than a few years on Butler), Dayton, and maybe Creighton, the fraternity of mid-majors doing substantially better every year than Bradley is pretty small.

Personally I think when it all boils down to exactly what am I personally GOING TO DO....I have easily come to the conclusion that I am far more likely to see what I desire in future Bradley teams BY VIGOROUSLY supporting them, and helping to promote them in various ways such as place posters and boxes of pocket schedules in my office, sending out blogs and promo stuff to as many people as I can to boost BU, and just talking them up at work, at church (not during the sermon), and everywhere else.......
than to sit and dis on my alma mater and unfairly rip them.

[Da Coach]

For the record- Jim Les doesn't have anything against height, or big guys, but he's just like every other coach....he would rather play a smaller player if it gives him a better chance to win. It's the same reason UNI's Jordan Eglseder averaged only 19 minutes a game, Evansville's VanTongeren averaged only 16.7 mpg, and why every other 7-footer in the MVC like Nick Evans, Zach House, Josh Crawford, Brent Leitnaker, and Garrett Stutz were bench players.

[wizard1]

Best Players in the State, Regardless of Class

A major problem in recruiting the city of Chicago is the difficulty of finding players who can qualify because of the citys lousy academics. This is not true of suburban Chicago but time spent in the city is usually a waste and better spent elsewhere.
Of course, the exception to this is programs that cheat to qualify players, Memphis being a prime example.
This is the primary reason you see fewer Chicago players at places like Mich. State, Wisc., Purdue, Michigan, Duke, N. Car., etc.
In addition to its academic problems, Chicago recruiting "sleaze" is rampant and makes the problem even worse.
Smart, honest recruiters don't waste a lot of time, effort, and $ in Chicago with good reason.

[midstateknowitall]

All this Chicago Bashing is spoken like true down staters. Hate on Chicago because of what you hear and say. I am orginally from upstate and have been in peoria for the last 5 yrs. Hate to tell you but Peoria has the same stuff happening, with shady transfers, people that ride a players success, and blah blah, the city just hasn't produced any high profile kids lately (Besides DJ RICHARDSON). There are Multiple High Profile kids every year in Chicago. All relative to the population. Easy to point the finger at Chicago.

Maybe Im off on this but why can't you play 2 big guys at a time. Collins and Thompson and create match up problems for other teams as well. Therron Wilson was a monster, best player on bradley's team last 2 yrs in my mind. However, Les has never utilized a big guy they just screen and rebound for the guards that shoot 3's. Collins, Sighn, Thompson, Sally, never had one guy we could go inside consistantly to to open up our shooters. Not saying these guys couldn't score inside but they never got opportunities too either.

I am sick of hearing how good Bradleys recruits are each yr and then how this team is going to be better and then they end up in the CBI or CIT... Just hard to swallow for me. I want better and expect better than what has been going on.

[tornado]

I might disagree a little...
and I am sure you know more AAU people, bosses, kingpins, or whatever you want to call them...
but I think even you will agree that the AAU people out of Peoria are decent people, and nowhere close to some of the AAU bosses in Chicago who carry wads of cash and are seemingly associated with the sleaziest of factors....

[midstateknowitall]

I can't say I totally agree with you, but I can't disagree with you either!!!

However, to be honest there is only 1 AAU program that actually seems to do something consistantly. There are alot of teams Peoria Carver, Peoria Allstars, Team IL (Bloomington), IL Elite (Champaign)... But the Peoria Irish seems to be the only program I am aware of that has multiple teams that play a real schedule and both in the spring and summer.

Like I said its all relative to numbers.

There are shady people in Peoria (they might not be as sleezy or as well known as the ones in chicago, but they are there). Hell I know friends in chicago that ask me about 1 specific person down here all the time. There just hasn't been that "PROGRAM" or "PLAYER" to latch on to lately.

[BU_Stunna]

I can't say I totally agree with you, but I can't disagree with you either!!!

However, to be honest there is only 1 AAU program that actually seems to do something consistantly. There are alot of teams Peoria Carver, Peoria Allstars, Team IL (Bloomington), IL Elite (Champaign)... But the Peoria Irish seems to be the only program I am aware of that has multiple teams that play a real schedule and both in the spring and summer.

Like I said its all relative to numbers.

There are shady people in Peoria (they might not be as sleezy or as well known as the ones in chicago, but they are there). Hell I know friends in chicago that ask me about 1 specific person down here all the time. There just hasn't been that "PROGRAM" or "PLAYER" to latch on to lately.

While the Irish are a solid program, they haven't even been around long enough to send anybody to college. Their first players are the 2009 ones who will just be getting there this Fall. I could be wrong but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the class of 2011 was their last. Team Illinois has been around almost 10 years and they play a full schedule as well and are one of the oldest AAU programs in the state, regardless of location.

The truth is AAU ball is expensive and unless you have a shoe company behind you is nearly unsustainable. And in this state, if you aren't in Chicago or the immediate area, you basically won't have a shoe contract which means your program is probably only going to last so long until whoever runs it decides its too difficult to keep going and the benefits of doing so do not outweigh the headaches that come with it. There is a reason that programs like the old Ft. SOOY that had some of the most talented teams in the country seemingly disappear into thin air as if they never existed.

With that being said, I agree that there are absolutely handlers in Peoria but they just don't get recognized as often because they keep a VERY low profile and as you said they don't have marquee players as often as upstate. I don't think most people realize just how dirty AAU is. If people knew the half of it they would be disgusted.

[midstateknowitall]

Yes, Team IL has been around for a while but since the graduation of Brandon Dunson the program hasn't been the same. Like you said AAU Programs are alot of work and a hell of a lot more expensive than most think. I follow high school ball religously and in the off season I try to do as much as I can with AAU as well. Team IL the last couple years has not been the same nor played a legit/full schedule. The one team they have this year 17U is coached by a guy named Todd Haynes. His team was the one in the program that stayed together last year and it looks to be the same way this year. There website last yr listed Donivine Stewart and other players that never played for them that I saw or was told about. In the past Team IL did have talent and have a solid program. However, recently it seems like it has been on the decline. Hopefully, they do rebound and get it rolling again.

I have no idea what the Peoria Irish will do but I believe it is a program the city of Peoria needs. I believe that carver and the all stars should of been included or been apart of that just to make this area look even stronger as a whole. Hopefully, it will continue because for as much dirt that goes on in AAU it does help kids get better and allow them to use there basketball talents to go to college.

[BU_Stunna]

For the record Team Illinois has 3 teams this year, 17U coached by Todd Haynes, 16U coached by Dodie Dunson, and 14U coached by Mike Donnelly and they all have full schedules.

But I agree that Peoria needs more AAU teams. For the amount of talent that is in the city, 3 AAU teams is not enough. The sad thing is that because of the costs to run a team it is unlikely that the number will be rising anytime soon.