Sun-Times Final Look at the Class of 2009

[Guest]

http://blogs.suntimes.com/hoopsreport/2009/04/final_look_at_the_class_of_200.html

12. Terry Johnson, 6-0, PG/2G, Chicago (North Lawndale) ... Sacrificed this season for a loaded team after averaging over 20 a game as a junior at St. Rita. Johnson has the ability to get by people and an offensive repertoire that will fit with the system Illinois State plays.

21. Zeke Upshaw, 6-5, 2G/WF, Chicago (Lab) ... Another real sleeper. This late bloomer is so skilled and smooth -- and he's only going to get better. He won't be an impact player at the college level immediately, but as he adds strength and experience his versatility could make him a dangerous weapon at Illinois State down the road.

24. Jordan Prosser, 6-7, PF, Eureka ... A former top 10 ranked player, Prosser had a big senior year and is still a valuable recruit for Bradley because of his size and decent skill level.

[BU Bill]

Maybe a slight Chicago bias here? Come on, Zeke Upshaw? Every other site doesn't have him in their top 25, and he never got any recruiting attention from any school higher than ISU. I have seen him play, and he is skinny, and lacks a shot. I think he can develop into a good D1 player, but I would be very surprised if he doesn't redshirt next year at ISU, and plays very little his first couple years.BTW- here is the list of players who got votes for Illinois Mr. Basketball this year--

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-090403-mr-basketball-voting,0,7188523.htmlstory

Note that Jordan Proisser finished 12th, not bad for a Class 2A player. Funny, but I don't see Zeke Upshaw's name anywhere on the list. In fact, Billy Molinari got 2 more votes (2) than Zeke Upshaw got (0).It's also interesting to note that Terry Johnson also did not record a single vote.

[tornado]

their opinions are so Chicago-centric...

Interesting how so few players in their top 20 are from outside Chicago and the surrounding area..
They even have one kid who hasn't played ball in a year ranked #11

and I know Peoria is probably situated in Indiana as far as they're concerned...but B-Mo is certainly somewhere inside the top 60 in the state, and Riggs, Prosser, & DSE where I'd expect a Chicago-centric paper to put them.

Seriously, Shaun Pratl (13 ppg/5 rpg) well ahead of Jordan Prosser (24 ppg/12 rpg)?
Pratl will be lucky to find playing time at EIU, while Prosser will play immediately in the Valley.
Pratl, as many recall, was charged with battery when he punched out another kid when all of them got drunk at an underage drinking party this past season.
How the coach caved and let Pratl play is beyond me, as most schools have some sort of athletic code.

Prosser's Eureka squad had one common opponent with Pratl's Richards' squad.
both lost to East Peoria...the difference....Prosser went for 26 points/17 rebounds, while Pratl had 13/5.

http://yourseason.suntimes.com/boys_basketball/1327372,121108-pratl-battery-richards.article

http://yourseason.suntimes.com/boys_basketball/1505155,033109-shaun-pratl-richards-court-ruling.article

[RedbirdFan21]

Well ESPN lists Zeke as an "85". (Prosser as an 87)

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=68159&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d68159

January, 2009: Upshaw is skilled wing with tremendous upside. He is an excellent ball handler and good shooter with three point range. Upshaw is very athletic and can finish with strength around the basket. He is a terrific perimeter rebounder and a very hard working on ball defender. He sprints the wing in transition and get his own shot in the half court. Upshaw should provide production on a consistent basis in the area of scoring and rebounding as a freshman for the Redbirds.

Sounds like they disagree with just about everything you said... (I'll take their word over yours... sorry)

http://edgytim.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=87285

Per Rivals... he had offers from: ISU, Kent St., UNI, Albany, Wagner, Ball State, Drake, Evansville...


I am NOT saying Zeke will be/is better then Prosser (hard to compare different positions anyway)... and I an not denying that their could be some Chicago Bias... but BU Bill... your post is pretty inaccurate, at least according to RECRUITING SERVICES

[RedbirdFan21]

And one reason Terry Johnson did not receive an Mr. Basektball votes (since that really matters anyway???) is because he left St. Rita (private school) because his family could no longer afford it and went to Chicago North Lawndale where he accepted his position of a role player on a great team and not the teams #1 option...

[leebiddlecome]

And one reason Terry Johnson did not receive an Mr. Basektball votes (since that really matters anyway???) is because he left St. Rita (private school) because his family could no longer afford it and went to Chicago North Lawndale where he accepted his position of a role player on a great team and not the teams #1 option...

Does any of this really matter? What makes a recruiting service opinion more valid than that of the Mr. Basketball voters?

Look, every MVC team signed guys. Fans of those teams think THEY got the best players. Of course, no one has any idea. I don't know if Bradley's guys are any better than Wichita's, Drake's, SIU's, etc. And, let's be honest, none of us know.

99% of kids signed played on good high school teams. They won a lot of awards. They scored a lot of points. They put up good stats. Well, I would worry if they didn't.

I'm done listening to recruiting hype and everyone telling me how good players are. A good recruiter gets kids who are good at the college level--not good at the high school level.

[RedbirdFan21]

Does any of this really matter? What makes a recruiting service opinion more valid than that of the Mr. Basketball voters?

Look, every MVC team signed guys. Fans of those teams think THEY got the best players. Of course, no one has any idea. I don't know if Bradley's guys are any better than Wichita's, Drake's, SIU's, etc. And, let's be honest, none of us know.

99% of kids signed played on good high school teams. They won a lot of awards. They scored a lot of points. They put up good stats. Well, I would worry if they didn't.

I'm done listening to recruiting hype and everyone telling me how good players are. A good recruiter gets kids who are good at the college level--not good at the high school level.

No arguments here... just defending 2 HIGH SCHOOLS KIDS who was getting ripped on because "he didn't even get any votes for Mr. Basketball!!!!" OMG HOW COULD IT BE?!?!?!?!?!

[shaunguth]

This obviously works the other way as well, so I'm not sure what the point is. Anthony Thompson was, according to the experts, our top recruit in the Thompson/Egolf/Maniscalco class. Don't look now, but he hasn't done much his first two years. Granted, he still has three years of eligibility left and could be a huge factor the rest of the way if he really wants, but I'd say Maniscalco was our top recruit looking back. The jury is still out on Egolf as well and he was the player I was most looking forward to seeing when he arrived.

This thread somehow reminds me of the VT thread regarding "conference records after sweet 16's". I'm not sure how it really matters at all. I would gladly accept a Sweet 16 appearance every four years, followed by three years above .500 in conference play, as opposed to winning one NCAA tournament game every 12 years.

[tornado]

No arguments here... just defending 2 HIGH SCHOOLS KIDS who was getting ripped on because "he didn't even get any votes for Mr. Basketball!!!!" OMG HOW COULD IT BE?!?!?!?!?!

using the Mr. Basketball as an example is fair because it shows the opinions of dozens of informed and knowlegable people throughout the state, compared to just one writer from Chicago who, for all we know, has never seen a game south of Joliet.
Heaven knows, fans of a certain school have used the Mr. Basketball argument so much mush that it barely means anything any more.

[Braves4Life]

"24. Jordan Prosser, 6-7, PF, Eureka ... A former top 10 ranked player, Prosser had a big senior year and is still a valuable recruit for Bradley because of his size and decent skill level. "


How in the he11 does a player "have a big senior year" and drop from the Top 10 all the way down to #24?! Because he signed with Bradley and not Iowa, Notre Dame, Xavier, or the other "Big" schools that offered or were interested?!

[tornado]

bingo - same way Chris Colvin and Drew Crawford sign with a BCS's
(albeit BCS's that have been recruiting mostly mid-major caliber kids) and they zoom to the Top 10!

Plus kids like Payne, who missed over half his senior season, and Haynes - who missed his entire senior seaosn,
zoom upward when they get BCS attention.

[Da Coach]

No arguments here... just defending 2 HIGH SCHOOLS KIDS who was getting ripped on because "he didn't even get any votes for Mr. Basketball!!!!" OMG HOW COULD IT BE?!?!?!?!?!

Come on Redbirdfan- you started it by purposefully posting as an ISU fan on a Bradley fan forum, and emphasizing that your 2 ISU recruits are rated higher by that one source than the BU recruit. What did you expect? Please don't try to say that was not your intent.
Nobody has ripped those 2 kids. Someone who has seen one of them play posted his opinion, and I have to say that I agree with it. The majority of recruiting sites rate Upshaw much lower than Prosser, so if you want to pick the site that doesn't, that's fine, but don't expect to post it here and not be challenged with the facts.

[RedbirdFan21]

Sure there was some good natured intent there... would you have it any other way???

One poster gave him opinion (ripping him, IMO) talking about how he can't shoot and won't contribute for several years... and how NO schools "higher then ISU" were interested in him...

I simply showed how ESPN disagreed with his assessment on his shot and ability to contribute... and I also shows how Prosser was rated higher... both with ESPN and Rivals... I then listed other offers from schools to show how several schools similar to ISU (both higher and lower) had offered as well... just stating facts here...

Hmm.. having discussions and arguments... seem like normal message board talk to me!

[tornado]

actually, prior to Upshaw landing his mid-major offer and verballing to ISU
he was ranked way down in the upper 20's and low 30's, way, way, way behind Prosser who was in the Top 10 at the time.
Even as recently as 3 months ago...Zeke was close to #30 and Prosser inside the Top 20

http://www.chicagohoops.com/articles1/2009rankings.html

But Upshaw playing in Class 3-4A while Prosser in 1-2A, and Upshaw in the Chicago area, have led to the swing in the rankings.

Actually, I, for one, am IMMENSELY glad Prosser fell in some people's eyes and in the rankings..
I think it the VERY reason Bradley got such a steal.
In the end, it'll be the ISU fans that most regret that Prosser fell in the rankings and BU landed him!

ps--- scout.com, one of the better recruiting services who rarely fail on DI caliber kids, doesn't even have Upshaw in their entire data base.
Rivals lists Upshaw well behind Prosser in Illinois and right below these two guys that most of us have never heard of:

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=51625

http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=89356

and neither of whom even made the top 60 list from the Sun Times.

[scout4126]

bingo - same way Chris Colvin and Drew Crawford sign with a BCS's
(albeit BCS's that have been recruiting mostly mid-major caliber kids) and they zoom to the Top 10!

Plus kids like Payne, who missed over half his senior season, and Haynes - who missed his entire senior seaosn,
zoom upward when they get BCS attention.

Colvin's a legitimate top five player, likely top three.