Trivia

[tornado]

Five Questions.....just to see who's sharp on an otherwise slow basketball day...

1- What head coach is the only person to ever coach a 15 seed NCAA team to a win over a 2 seed, and also coach at Bradley?

2- Name five times in the past decade that a Missouri Valley team has been in the Sweet Sixteen.
also name one other MVC team with an all time winning record in the NCAA.

3- how many times has Bradley been one of the final SIXTEEN teams left in the NCAA Tournament?

4- Bradley has way more NCAA Tournament wins than any other Valley team, but name the ONLY team in the history of the NCAA Tournament to ever get an AT LARGE BID when they had a losing record??
Also.....did that team with a losing record who was an at-large bid win any games and if so how many?

5- Has anyone ever been BOTH a player at Bradley, and a coach at Bradley as well as a head coach in the NBA?

Answers (mouse over):
1- Steve Merfeld, his 2001 Hampton team was 15 seeded and knocked off #2 seed Iowa State coached by Larry Eustachy.
Could this be why Larry was so touchy when he came to Peoria?

2- Missouri State in 1999, SIU in 2002, Bradley in 2006, Wichita State in 2006, SIU in 2007.
also, Indiana State's all time record in the NCAA is 5-3.

3- FIVE times!! More than any other Valley team!
BU was in the title game in 1950 & 1954,
in the Elite Eight in 1955,
and in the Sweet Sixteen in 2006.
BU's all time 12-8 record in NCAA Tournament games is far better than any other Valley team.

4- The answer to both is Bradley, who in 1955 was given an at-large bid when their record was under .500. (7-19)
But-- they advanced, they won twice and played in the Elite Eight before losing!

5- yes, Stan Albeck. He also coached a National Player of the year and 1st Team All American.

[TheAsianSensation]

I think he meant, "Who is the only Bradley coach that has pulled off a 15 over 2", not that it was the only 15 over 2 in history.

[tornado]

T

Sorry Bud but your question #1 or your answer to question #1 is inaccurate...

sorry DC, I tried to make it clear...

I am only referring only to guys who won as a #15 seed AND also coached at Bradley, so Tarant cannot be a correct answer.

did the question not make that clear??

the part that says "also coached at Bradley"?

[BraveDog]

# 3 and 4 are kind of misleading. When Bradley had its 2 longest NCAA tournament runs it wasn't the preferred tournament to be in. The good teams went to the NIT and the leftovers went to the NCAA. Just some info.

[houstontxbrave]

T

Sorry Bud but your question #1 or your answer to question #1 is inaccurate. Unless Dick Tarrant coached at Bradley at some point. Richmond, coached by Dick Tarrant, was the 1st 2-seed to beat a 15 seed in 1991 when his Richmond Spiders beat Boeheim's Syracuse team. The final was 73-69. Way before Merfeld accomplished the feat.

http://www.rootzoo.com/articles/view/NCAA-Basketball/General/Memorable-NCAA-Moments---Syracuse-Orange-Edition----Moment-5_12072

http://collegehoopsnet.com/Onions/031804.htm

"4) 1991 #15 Richmond 73, #2 Syracuse 69

Another breakthrough moment, because this was the first time a #15 seed ever toppled a #2 seed. It was important, too, because this was a year when three play-in games were played before the tourney, since the number of Division I conferences had swelled to 33 and the automatic bid total was frozen at 30. Some thought maybe this was a time to just cut some perceived fat out of the field, anyways, since 15 & 16 seeds so far hadn??™t won in the tournament. It was wonderful to see the Spiders prove otherwise, and with this being the first year CBS had rights to all games the first two days of the tourney, the nation got to see the finish of this stunner on national TV in primetime. If his previous successes hadn't done it already, this game also finally earned Dick Tarrant the national recognition as a top of the line coach that he had richly deserved for years anyways.



Richmond led this entire game and hit free throws down the stretch against a Syracuse team that included names like Billy Owens, LeRon Ellis, David Johnson and Adrian Autry. Curtis Blair was the star for the Spiders, introducing himself to the nation with 18 points and six assists. The result wasn??™t as surprising when put in context; besides UR??™s history of giant-killing and the fact that it 15 of 17 coming into the tourney, the Orange were struggling coming into the NCAAs. They were knocked out of the Big East tourney early by Villanova, and swirling rumors about an impending probation put the team on edge. A 26-6 year has seldom ended in such sour fashion. "

I know you love links to prove facts so there you go......

It is always awesome to be right but its also alot of fun to actually have read a question throughly before you go and provide facts that have nothing to do with being right

[DUBulldog]

also name one other MVC team with an all time winning record in the NCAA..

Drake is another possible answer to that question.

[tornado]

# 3 and 4 are kind of misleading.

I am not sure I agree, there's NOTHING misleading about the questions...

and Bradley has a tremendous NIT record and history as well....maybe one of the best 2 or 3 of all the teams who've played in the NIT...so why the attempt at a dig??

But there is nobody left in the known universe who actually thinks the NCAA is irrelevant because the NIT was once maybe just as prominent as the NCAA.

........by the early 1950's the NCAA was every bit as prestigious and desirable, while the prestige of the NIT faded yearly after 1952....
For example, by 1954, the NIT saw Holy Cross duking it out in the Championship game against Duquesne, two smaller east coast rivals,
while the NCAA tourney had LaSalle vs. Penn State...two schools with with a bit more prestige and larger fan bases.
LaSalle with Tom Gola also went on to lose to Bill Russell's San Francisco in 1955.
The premier team of 1955 and 1956 was San Francisco who played in the NCAA not the NIT.

The NCAA Tourney expanded several times in the early 1950's
The NIT struggled through the 1950's to find it's niche, eventually accepting the role of a 2nd tier tourney...never once expanding during that decade.

[Chico]

I am not sure I agree, there's NOTHING misleading about the questions...

and Bradley has a tremendous NIT record and history as well....maybe one of the best 2 or 3 of all the teams who've played in the NIT...so why the attempt at a dig??

But there is nobody left in the known universe who actually thinks the NCAA is irrelevant because the NIT was once maybe just as prominent as the NCAA.

........by the early 1950's the NCAA was every bit as prestigious and desirable, while the prestige of the NIT faded yearly after 1952....
For example, by 1954, the NIT saw Holy Cross duking it out in the Championship game against Duquesne, two smaller east coast rivals,
while the NCAA tourney had LaSalle vs. Penn State...two schools with with a bit more prestige and larger fan bases.
LaSalle with Tom Gola also went on to lose to Bill Russell's San Francisco in 1955.
The premier team of 1955 and 1956 was San Francisco who played in the NCAA not the NIT.

The NCAA Tourney expanded several times in the early 1950's
The NIT struggled through the 1950's to find it's niche, eventually accepting the role of a 2nd tier tourney...never once expanding during that decade.

Might be reading this wrong, but didn't Bradley play LaSalle in the 1954 NCAA championship game?
Also don't forget that teams like Holy Cross and Duquesne were well known programs back in the 50's, much like Bradley.

[tornado]

sorry...had the name wrong...yes, BU played LaSalle
and LaSalle played again in 56 vs. USF..

[BraveDog]

Wasn't meaning to dig at anything. Just stating that their are teams with NCAA tournament championships during its lesser years. I don't think that the NIT fell into the NCAA's shadow until the 60's. Teams were still choosing to go into the NIT over the NCAA that late. But that is really how you want to look at it. Considering no one really cares too much what teams have done 50 years ago, unless you are a Cubs fan then you have to go back a few more years.

[TNel]

Chuck Orsborn must have been the first to notice that "shadow." After four straight BU appearances in the NIT ('57 - '60) ... the last three because they were runners-up to Oscar's NCAA-bound Bearcats ... Ozzie turned down an NIT bid in 1961.

[southpaw nothin]

Let me clear up some of the "prestige" confusion that seems to be apparent here.

I hear a lot from BU fans that the NIT was the more prestigious event for a long time. That is true to an extent, but one must be careful when making a blanket statement without explaining the details of tourney history.

The first strictly national collegiate postseason was the NAIB (precursor to NAIA) in 1937.

The NIT organizers saw an opportunity to make some big money with the nation's most well-known teams and started their own event in 1938.

There was initially some reluctance from major conference powers, because a loss may have threatened their national prestige. A shining example of that coming in a few paragraphs. . .

In 1939, the NCAA started its event to prevent someone else from stealing their product, and it was done an invitational basis. Bradley was invited, but declined the bid for two reasons, to show loyalty to the NIT, and also because they had already beaten Oregon (#1 team in the country and eventual NCAA champ) and the players didn't think they could repeat the feat, so they returned to the NIT. Also, the bid Bradley declined went to Ohio State, who that year was coached by Harold "Ole" Olsson, who coached Bradley in 1919. The Buckeyes made the most of it, reaching the title game.

The first attempt to get some prestige back from the NIT was the following year in 1940 when the NCAA began implementation of their one conference, one bid invitation system which was intended to gather the best teams from the 6 best conferences that year. The only problem was there wasn't a great wealth of conferences in basketball yet. In fact there were only 7-8 conferences recognized by the NCAA, and a couple of them weren't regarded very highly. Over the next few years a number of conferences would form.

Bradley at that time played in the Illinois Collegiate Conference, a league they dominated, but membership was largely made up of schools who were probably closer to the "college" or NAIA level.

In 1940, Purdue won the Western Conference outright, but were swept by 2nd place Indiana in the regular season. At that point, Purdue held a 51-11 lead in the all-time series. Purdue's coach "Piggy" Lambert was vehemently opposed to the idea of basketball postseason tournaments and publicly declined the Boilermaker's bid, which went to Indiana--who went on to win and probably forever reversed the dominance of the rivalry.

This left the NIT to still be able to pickup the popular and well-known independent powers such as Duquesne, DePaul, and the local favorites such as St. John's and Long Island.

In 1941, the informal grouping of schools known as the "Ivy League" (wouldn't be a formal "league" until 1954) was granted a bid to an outstanding member, and one bid was left for the most outstanding team either as an independent or at-large.

As the decade moved on, the college game was slowly becoming big business on the east coast, but the NCAA Tournament had so many teams doing well from out west that seemed very obscure to many and as teams like Colorado and Utah did well attendance in the later rounds wasn't as great.

So the NIT flourished because people were familiar with the teams. Bradley became quite popular. It was said "You could throw a Bradley Jacket on the court at the Garden and 10,000 people would show up to see what would happen."

By 1948, Bradley was in the Valley. Many of the local New York schools such as NYU and CCNY formed what was called the Middle Atlantic Conference. A number of smaller schools from New England (such as Holy Cross, Providence, Rhode Island, and Connecticut) formed another conference, and an early precursor to the West Coast Conference had been created.

As early as 1945, the independents had all but been excluded from the NCAA. And you had probably even more teams that fans in New York weren't familiar with, and the NIT kept getting bigger in terms of popularity.

Schools lobbied to the NCAA Tournament to bring back at-large invitations to independent schools. As the 1948 season wore on, the NCAA considered the move, but would ultimately decline.

As a result of the pinch, in 1948 both Bradley and Kentucky figured to have good enough teams to be included. And they did. But both tournaments went without expansion. Bradley was in talks to add a late season game with Kentucky when Adolph Rupp in hopes a win could boost BU into was scheduled to give a speech in Peoria, but two weeks before it would have happened, Kentucky had secured the Southern championship and didn't want his team to have to play an extra game before the NCAA. Ultimately BU would also miss out on the NIT.

There was public outrage about Bradley's omission from the postseason. So, since the NCAA would not expand, the NIT would for the 1949 postseason, inviting 12 teams.

Around this time the media began acknowledging the NCAA Champion as the true National Champion, but NIT Champions also had a legitimate claim, simply because they weren't eligible for the most part in the NIT.

Yet, in 1950 the NCAA still moved Bradley's regional round game to accommodate their participation in the NIT.

Over the next couple years, the NCAA still went unchanged until 1951 when it expanded to 16 teams and gave ALL conferences recognized a bid, and allowed independents to fill any remaining spots, and split the field into Eastern and Western regionals. In 1951 the NIT remained at 12 teams. But many teams were reluctant to participate in either tournament because of the point shaving scandal fallout. Schools did not want to expose their players to those dangers. So also in 1951, there were a number of smaller "national" invitational postseason events in other locations, among those was a tournament held on BU's campus, the NCBT, and one that BU participated at in Hawai'i, finishing runner-up in both.

By the early 1950's it was clear the NCAA was the tournament you wanted to win as the winner increasingly was acknowledged as the National Champion.

In 1953, the NCAA expanded to 22 teams as new leagues continued to form. The regions were split into two groups of 10 leagues each, and each region's two best independents extended invites.

In 1954, the way the regions were divided, Bradley and Oklahoma City were the only indies in the Western region. Both had outstanding teams. Ok City had an honorable mention All-American and Bradley would reach the Championship game.

In 1955, both teams would meet again courtesy of the same rule. But both teams had losing records. BU would win, and win the next game against SMU to reach the Elite 8 before losing to Colorado.

Bradley's NIT championships in 1957 and the early 1960's are still regarded as great achievements. But by 1960, the NIT was already regarded a second-tier tournament.

While there was no doubt prestige in winning, I cringe as Bradley embraces that as the hallmark of its success. Sure it's a point of pride. We all have tremendous pride in BU's history. But let us not forget it is a history of runners-up finishes--exemplified by the CBI and CIT most recently--and when we won the NIT's, it was a second-tier tournament. Prestigious yes, but not as big as we make it.

That said, the 1957 NIT team was a groundbreaker and John Wooden likely used Bradley's surprising of Xavier by pressing non-stop for the final 30 minutes as a model for his success at UCLA. It was over the next two years when Wooden began incorporating constant full-court pressure on UCLA's opponents.

[southpaw nothin]

Chuck Orsborn must have been the first to notice that "shadow." After four straight BU appearances in the NIT ('57 - '60) ... the last three because they were runners-up to Oscar's NCAA-bound Bearcats ... Ozzie turned down an NIT bid in 1961.

No doubt. By the mid-60's the reputation was still great, but I recently ran across an old Chicago Tribune season preview headlined "Bradley Faces Another Season as Bridesmaid." While the program was certainly prestigious, once the TV era set in, and major schools started dumping thousands of dollars into their programs, it doesn't take long for something like that to take a nasty turn.

It's a real shame that he stepped aside after only nine seasons. He has not gotten his due in recognition. His winning percentage would still be among the 20 best all-time, but he's not included in the official NCAA rankings because he didn't coach long enough.

But I don't think it was a "shadow" so much as it was the dawn of a new era, the game became much bigger, recruiting of black players became more open, and it took more money to compete at the highest level, money that BU simply didn't have available.

[Chico]

Chuck Orsborn must have been the first to notice that "shadow." After four straight BU appearances in the NIT ('57 - '60) ... the last three because they were runners-up to Oscar's NCAA-bound Bearcats ... Ozzie turned down an NIT bid in 1961.

I was in the military in 1961 and don't remember Bradley turning down an NIT bid then, but the Braves had a worse record in 1961-62 and still went to the NIT. I got out of service just in time to watch Willie Sommerset and Duquesne beat the Braves at the Fieldhouse the last regular season game, and then the first game in the NIT after Bradley lost to Cinci at Evansville in the MVC playoff game. I do remember after a game in St. Louis to end the season, we were planning a trip to New York and the NIT, but Bradley turned down the bid.

[heybballfans]

Hampton over Iowa State, 2001. Coppin State over South Carolina in 1997. Santa Clara over Arizona, 1993. Richmond over Syracuse, 1991.

these all 15-2 upsets recently