How Much is Too Much?

[amettrick]

Roster turnover is always a big part of the college game. Besides the obvious need to replace graduating seniors, a large number of programs must deal with players transfering or leaving school for various reason. The question, of course, is how much roster turnover is too much?

Wednesday's announcement that Darrian Norris will transfer to a differnt school is just the latest in a long line of players leaving Bradley. In the last 5 years (since the end of the 2004-05 season), Bradley has had 9 players leave the Hilltop with eligibility remaining (Stemler, Rembert, O'Bryant, Brown, Jassey, Fears, Cole-Scott, Austin, and Norris). Now, I don't know the numbers when it comes to other schools, but I'm willing to bet that 9 is at least above the national average. It should also be noted that it wouldn't necessarily be a shock if that number climbed to 10 before next season gets under way.

It's tough to say just how much these deflections have set back the Braves. Each of the players on that list left for different reasons and there's really no way to say how much differently things would have turned out if any of them have stayed. I don't think the number of players leaving has reached a point that it's really a problem, but it does concern me a little. Norris may not have been in line for much playing time next season, but he still showed a lot of promise and would likely have had a good shot at contributing during his junior and senior years.

In my mind, it just raises a couple of questions. When does a constant string of players leaving early become a problem that hurts program success and stability? And is there anything the coaching staff can do differently to stop this from happening (e.i. perhaps be more clear to recruits about what roles they can expect to fill)?

[ser_solace]

The problem is that it depends on who leaves. In some cases, we don't lose much, and in other cases (such as O'bryant), it's a significant loss.

With Fears and Brown, I'm guessing the staff have learned a good lesson. I'm pretty sure there is a certain character profile the staff want to add to the team now.

While I wish Norris would have stayed, we have a good young group already with some good incoming players.

[Da Coach]

I haven't done any research on the number of transfers that every D1 team has, but I would guess this is closer to average than excessive.

Like you said, they all left for different reasons. If most were for the same reason, then I would be more concerned.

I would bet there is a loose correlation between how good a program is, and how many players leave prematurely. The programs that are the weakest probably have the fewest defections. I think we all want the coaches to put together the best team. If this issue was preventing that, we should be worried. But I don't see that is the case.

[ifarania]

Patrick doesn't really count; he was a lottery pick. I'm only frustrated when we lose a solid, character guy. When it comes to others (like a certain individual (or two) who couldn't control himself), I see it as something the coaching staff learns from... In general (or at least in my mind, where every player behaves like Jeremy Crouch), the staff has done a consistently improving job of recruiting a "Bradley Brave." So, if a player leaves to go pro, I don't mind.. And if a guy leaves because he's a distraction and we get better individuals in the future (which I think we have), I don't mind either..

It's when an upstanding individual leaves, a reasonably decent scholar, a good member of the community, and someone who will have floor impact exits the problem... So I really think this is mostly a non issue. It's upsetting that Norris is leaving, because I hear he is the first three things, and I believe he would have been the last, but I don't think this is an institutional problem.

[Out of Balance]

If all or a good % of the leaving players were pointing to one certain reason (just say the coach, for what ever reason), then there would be something to be concern about. So far there is nothing that points that way.
In todays world, change and change of mind is common anymore. Today it is said that young workers will change jobs 5 or more times on the average. Thats a lot when not so long a go if a person went to work some where (say Cat.) they stayed there till they retired or died. This is true in college sports! Time and Things change. I'm sure neither Norris nor the Coach's seen the injury coming to AW and the adding of another year to his career. Thinking about it now maybe if AW had not got injured, Norris may of been asked or would of asked to be reshirted this year. Anyway these young players are a lot different than players were years ago. First, most are given a basketball soon after birth. They play in the pony leagues, in grade schools, Jr. high, HS, and most play in summer leagues each year. By the time they are recruited in college they are so use to being a star and playing that when they don't walk right in, start or are not the star anymore, it's just to hard for some to adjust or wait their turn. They then look else where to live their dream. Not saying that is why they all leave but a very high %. I don't think BU has any troubles or there is room for concern but just that things and times have changed. I'm sure JL and the coach's don't bring in a player with the intention of having him leave (for what ever reason) before he is done playing college ball.

[tornado]

since Jim Les has gotten his own players, he's averaged between 1 and 2 scholarship players
per season as roster turnover (other than those who reach the end of eligibility).

Even NCAA statistics show roughly 34% of all DI basketball players transfer before their eligibility
expires where they went first...
so do the math....that's about average.
Teams like Iowa & Indiabna have 4 or more players leave in a single season, and we've documented
how SIU had 4-5 players leave (or run off) in the last year or so, and so has Saint Louis U.

Hey-- would you rather Coach Les cave in to guys who aren't happy here....give in and let them
run the show and dictate playing time?

Go back and read the long thread when Tyrone Cole-Scott left. Right off the bat...predictable and
like clockwork, a number of threads show up attacking Jim Les and believing all the silly allegations
of the player's father and the non-existent text message.
Then bit by bit, actual reason sets in and we begin to learn that our coach did nothing wrong, took
the high road and didn't fire back juvenile attacks.
And that in the end, an unproductive and disruptive player like Cole-Scott, who is disgruntled and
even want to dictate how much he plays and expects to play MORE despite being no help to the team
whatsoever....is better gone than staying.


Darian's situation is totally different, but can you not see that his departure is PRECISELY what's best for both parties?
He can now find a place to play that'll be satisfactiory for him and BU can move on with the open scholarship.
If you simply wave a magic wand and put an end to the player departures, then this might well be our starting lineup:
Rashad Austin, Tyrone Cole-Scott, Ray Brown, Jeremy Fears, Saihou Jassey.

[amettrick]

since Jim Les has gotten his own players, he's averaged between 1 and 2 scholarship players
per season as roster turnover (other than those who reach the end of eligibility).

Even NCAA statistics show roughly 34% of all DI basketball players transfer before their eligibility
expires where they went first...
so do the math....that's about average.
Teams like Iowa & Indiabna have 4 or more players leave in a single season, and we've documented
how SIU had 4-5 players leave (or run off) in the last year or so, and so has Saint Louis U.

Hey-- would you rather Coach Les cave in to guys who aren't happy here....give in and let them
run the show and dictate playing time?

Go back and read the long thread when Tyrone Cole-Scott left. Right off the bat...predictable and
like clockwork, a number of threads show up attacking Jim Les and believing all the silly allegations
of the player's father and the non-existent text message.
Then bit by bit, actual reason sets in and we begin to learn that our coach did nothing wrong, took
the high road and didn't fire back juvenile attacks.
And that in the end, an unproductive and disruptive player like Cole-Scott, who is disgruntled and
even want to dictate how much he plays and expects to play MORE despite being no help to the team
whatsoever....is better gone than staying.


Darian's situation is totally different, but can you not see that his departure is PRECISELY what's best for both parties?
He can now find a place to play that'll be satisfactiory for him and BU can move on with the open scholarship.
If you simply wave a magic wand and put an end to the player departures, then this might well be our starting lineup:
Rashad Austin, Tyrone Cole-Scott, Ray Brown, Jeremy Fears, Saihou Jassey.

I wasn't suggesting that certain departures weren't for the best. In no way should Les ever let a player dictate his playing time. Nor did I suggest that we had come close to reaching the levels of turmoil at certain other schools.

I was merely pointing out that we've had our fair share of players leaving, and it brings up a mild concern in my eyes because that isn't something you want to become a trend.

[real fan]

There really is not much a coach can do about players leaving as there are so many schools where a player can go to get more playing time plus some kids just get homesick and want to get closer to home. I don"t think we are above ave. in this dept.

[brocks]

When I look at that list of departed players, I can't say I'm really upset about a single one (except POB, which was for good reason). We need to give JL credit for this: the vast majority of player losses that hurt BU during his tenure reulted from GRADUATION.

As for Norris, I was at the Pacific game with my brother (who is not from BU). I was explaining all the players to him, and when it came to DN, I said, "another talented freshman. Not sure where he fits though." Eastman, a 6-4 zone buster, would move DN even farther down the depth chart, so if DN knew the JE commit was coming, it makes a lot of sense for him to go somewhere where he can start and be happy.

In fact, a player of Darian's ability leaving BU because he's not likely to get enough floor time is . . . well . . . positive for BU?

[SFP]

In fact, a player of Darian's ability leaving BU because he's not likely to get enough floor time is . . . well . . . positive for BU?

Agreed with all except the last sentence. He would have been very important his Jr. and Sr. year for us. He has a great outside shot that would have paid great dividends.

[Da Coach]

As Bradley gets better caliber recruits from 1-13, it's likely we'll see more of this. Kids all want to play, and the more talented a kid is, he won't be satified playing a backup role forever, or playing out of position.

I am not necessarily saying Bradley's top recruits are better than they were in the past, but I think the depth is getting better. That means more talented kids at the deeper end of the bench, who feel they could play more somewhere else.