Doublespeak on Where the Money comes from to Pay Enormous Coaches' Salaries

[amckillip]

ISU fans, are going to come on here and respond to Da Coach with limited examples of (comparatively) small amounts of funds BU has received and say that we get money too. Which, in theory, they're right but those are always for special projects and never standard operating costs. That being said I have no problem with state schools. If I hadn't worked my butt off theres no way I could have afforded to go to BU, let alone some of the other schools I looked at. Without scholarships going to Purdue (I'm from Indiana) would have been much more affordable, state school's bring higher education to a larger group of people, not just the upper middle class and above. However, there are large trade-offs, no one can honestly say a public school education is as invasive and well-rounded as that recieved at a private insitution. Just spend a week on one othe campus' at BU everyone's involved in something, taking on a leadership role in one way or another. At state schools, it's very different. You go to glass, get out, and then do your own thing. So going to a private vs. public school is a matter of choice and financial affordability. But just because BU is self supporting doesn't mean it ISU are the bad guys (they are, but for other reasons... ). What UK is doing really is terrible, IMO. But as taxpayers in the commonwealth of Kentucky don't seem to be too outraged, and at the end of the day I'm guessing they're BBall program brings in far more than it spends, so it's in the best interests of UK to pay the best coaches and get the best playes, which is why they continue to do so. If it becomes unfavorable, or the taxpayers vote an official into office that will change that practice, it's here to say. But lets not villify all state schools and their alum for those actions.

[tornado]

here's an article detailing just another creative way the Athletic Dept. at Kansas funneled taxpayer money
silently to support athletics... until it was revealed last week.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/apr/08/ku-shouldnt-subsidize-tickets/

I am sure all along they were saying..."but we don't use any taxpayer dollars!!!"

"What shocked me about last week’s announcement was the fact that for the
last two years university funds were transferred to KU Athletics to pay for
the faculty discount. What was the university administration thinking when it
decided to do this? ....... But for the university to
transfer unrestricted funds ......is, to my mind, evidence of a
total lack of perspective and priorities and ranks up there with the
administration taking so many people down to Florida for a bowl game.

I sometimes think that university administrators forget that the money they
spend is not theirs. It belongs to the people of Kansas and it comes from
tuition, state grants, sponsored research, and donations from alumni and
friends of the university. It seems to me that the only purpose for which
university funds should be spent are those that support the educational,
research, and service mission of the university."

[tornado]

this money is just chump change to Bill Self and his sources,

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=40195.0

but I'll bet the taxpayers still are on the hook for all of it...regardless of the spin they put on it...
$3.59 million just to pay the Athletic Director who is leaving in about a month.
KK should check into the position....after all we beat Kansas every time we've played them this decade.

[tornado]

Of course they all tell you that their athletic budgets don't come from taxpayer dollars...
and that their athletic departments are all self supporting or funded by outside sources or private sources
...and if there's still those out there who believe it....here's even more undeniable proof as it comes from the very people who know...

... every once in a while, they actually speak the truth, like this time...

"Paul Kowalczyk (Colorado State University Athletic Director - who used to be SIU's AD)...
had to cut $160,000 from his proposed budget for next year because of reduced state funding"

"Given the state of funding for higher education in Colorado as well as, of course, the economy,
I think it's going to be difficult for the next year or two, hopefully no longer than that," Kowalczyk said."

http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20090531/SPORTS/905310333/1006/SPORTS

and he even includes all the new, on-campus facilities as being funded by state and taxpayer funds

[SFP]

There was an article in a paper and not sure which one which said the The University of New Orleans will be cutting most of their sports program because the student refused a hike in their fees to cover said expenses. Fees to me are a tax! It also said do to the cuts from most states to higher ed other schools are also cutting sports program (some have already been mentioned on here). If there was no direct correlation between tax payer money and the sports program at state sponsored higher ed these type of cuts would not be happening. Anyone who says that a coaches salary is not paid by the state is really not looking at the reality of the situation. A good coach though is a great investment for a school to make more money for the school from various sources (i.e. better attendance, greater chance of alumni contributing, name recognition which will attract better students etc..). At the end of the day the salary is coming from a state institution which is primarily funded by state tax payers. Forget about accounting principles. If your costs exceeds your revenue and the state makes up that difference it's a bailout by the tax payers. Well guess what every state university, college and community college falls under that. I have no idea who would argue anything differently. Let's face it the only reason that public universities keep their sports program, has nothing to do with economics or real education, but the state legislature keeping their constituents happy! It is all PORK when it is all said and done.

[georgethedog]

What state taxpayer money does a private school like Bradley get?


The Federal government does award grants to schools, public or private, but schools must compete for this federal money, and they must perform and meet standards set by the government. It is not just given to them with no strings like the pipeline of state taxpayer money that constantly feeds into the state schools.

BU gets a great amount of taxpayer dollars. Reality check here! If a student goes to Bradley and gets a Pell grant (which a lot of them do) that is taxpayer money. As a former Controller and Chief Financial Officer of more than one college, I learned most colleges (private or otherwise) are taxpayer supported in a significant way through federal/government grants given to students; who then give it to the college, who then use it to pay the bills of the college. For anyone out there bothering to read this, please don't even for one moment think that Bradley is a private college when it comes to funding operations. That is not true and never will be. I'm on vacation and read this and could not resist. I could go into great detail, but there is no sense in that. The fact is, BU and any other school that allows students to pay tuition, etc. using grant money from any governmental agency is publically funded. This is especially true for current operations (year to year budgets). A case could be made that BU is just as much a public school as ISU. Argument over. I'm out. Catch you as the season nears.

[tornado]

that is a very unrealistic comparison....and you can believe what you want and even offer the odd explanation of your choosing, but very few people, not even the state school crowd would agree with you......

Using your reasoning......if a lady on Medicare and Social Security spends the afternoon at the Paradice,
then by your logic, the Paradice receives Federal funding...and thus is supported by tax dollars and is a state run gambling establishment!

I think it is fair to state that Bradley DOES NOT receive direct Federal or state funding and never receives directly, any taxpayer money.

If some person who receives Federal or state money, then turns around and uses it to either pay their tuition at Bradley or buy something at the bookstore, then
this is so totally different from the actual context of what's being discussed here, that STATE schools DO received DIRECT funding of taxpayer dollars in order to operate their schools and cover the costs that would otherwise (and that are covered) be covered by raising the tuition, which of course is the MAIN and really the SOLE reason state schools have lower tuition than private schools (it sure isn't because the state schools run more efficiently or waste less!)

A case could be made that BU is just as much a public school as ISU.

I work in a job where people sometimes pay me with money that they received from the government, but it sure doesn't mean I receive FEDERAL funds, nor am I supported by tax dollars!
My business is definitely NOT a state business nor a tax-payer funded business.......


this all gets so silly if you think of a man who cashes his federal retirement check or his welfare check, then drops a few dollars in the collection plate at a church...
thus, per your definition, he has just made the church a government sponsored institution....because they are taking governemt money....contrary to the 2nd amendment!

[BU RICK]

Why does a university with higher learning like Bradley promote the par-a-dice? The par-a-dice is in business to take money from Peorians. How many bankruptcies have they caused in Peoria and the surrounding area. Why did the State of Illinois even legalize it - to make money by taxing them from the citizens losses.

[Da Coach]

A case could be made that BU is just as much a public school as ISU.

Not even close!
You use the argument of the occasional student who gets financial aid that is government backed. But all schools have these students. And if that student was not attending Bradley, chances are another private-paying student would be, so BU is not dependent on the state or federal money. On the contrary, every student at a state school receives a huge amount of taxpayer money to fund their education.

Here is the clincher- if the government stopped subsidizing universities today, ISU, U of Ill, WIU, EIU, NIU, SIU, Chicago State, and every other state school would shut their doors immediately.

Bradley and every other private school would continue to operate unchanged.

[tornado]

Why does a university with higher learning like Bradley promote the pair-a-dice? ...

whoa, this one kinda stuns me....can you tell me what you offer as evidence that Bradley "promotes the Paradice"?
I just checked the BU website, and not even a mention nor an ad for Paradice.
I even did a site search on bubraves.com and find not even a single match for the Par-a-dice.

If you are referring to Par-a-dice buying ads and sponsoring things, then I guess I can at least see what you mean...
but BU basketball will, and does sell advertising, and I am not sure how or where they'd draw the line if they decided to exclude certain restaurants and hotels just because of their links to a fully legal activity.

[QPS]

I think it is fair to state that Bradley DOES NOT receive direct Federal or state funding and never receives directly, any taxpayer money.

According to Bradley's federal tax return, Form 990, the school received $5,895,000 in "government contributions (grants)" for the year ended 5-31-2007.

A few years ago, I believe a federal grant paid for the Global Communication Center.

If you look at the proposed Illinois State Capital Spending budget, there is a $100 million line item for grants to private universities.

There are many way that BU and other private institutions receive funding from government agencies. The current public college system could not handle all the students in private schools plus the current students in public colleges. Thus, it makes sense for the government to pay some of the costs.

[tornado]

can you cite the link???
sure the government does allow and support the private institution doing what they'd otherwise have to play for themselves...
but these are NOT grants of federal dollars to cover or reduce kids' tuition....


and--even churches get Federal grants...

http://www.religionandsocialpolicy.org/news/article.cfm?id=1162

the grants pay for the service they are trying to achieve, but the grants are NOT intended to "support" the institution...

I think I agree with Da Coach...
if ALL federal and state tax money instantly disappeared today, all state schools would close immediately but all private schools would flourish!
Case closed.......

[BU RICK]

whoa, this one kinda stuns me....can you tell me what you offer as evidence that Bradley "promotes the Paradice"?
I just checked the BU website, and not even a mention nor an ad for Paradice.
I even did a site search on bubraves.com and find not even a single match for the Par-a-dice.

If you are referring to Par-a-dice buying ads and sponsoring things, then I guess I can at least see what you mean...
but BU basketball will, and does sell advertising, and I am not sure how or where they'd draw the line if they decided to exclude certain restaurants and hotels just because of their links to a fully legal activity.

I watch on the computer and have seen the advertisement on the scoreboard and have watched them rolling a pair of dice along the floor at halftime to advertise it. Someboby gets money for advertising/promoting the par-a-dice. Maybe Bradley has no control over what's on the scoreboard or what's done during halftime. Maybe it's the CC getting the money for the promotion.

[tornado]

if I give my money to the Girl Scouts for them to use as they see fit, then I am supporting the Girl Scouts
(as the govt supports the state schools)

if I hire a Girl Scout to mow my lawn and pay her what I'd have paid anyone else for the same job, then it is totally different, and I am not supporting the Girl Scouts, I am only getting my money's worth for what I paid for.

Even if some federal $ ends up coming to BU it is for a designated purpose, but NOT to generally support the school and cover costs and tuition (this is what's called direct government funding/support)

[QPS]

can you cite the link???

Here is the state capital budget. Look at page 44 / 96. $100 million for private universities: http://www.state.il.us/budget/FY2010...tal_Budget.pdf

You can look up any not-for-profit's tax return here to see what the government money was: http://foundationcenter.org/

I do not have a link for the GCC funding. That comes from memory.

ISU says less than 25% of its revenues comes from state funds - http://www.mediarelations.ilstu.edu/...ternalbudg.asp

State schools are getting less and less government funding.