3 starters out

[Chico]

You are twisting what I said, then criticizing me, for what you erroneously think I said.

I never said anything more than that Will Egolf won the starting 5 position, which he did. And he is out.

Dodie is also out, because of injury. I don't see where I or anyone is "acting like he was gone all season". We don't know if he'll be back, but it would be foolish to think he will be able to return and play at 100%.

Andrew has been out the entire year. To try to minimize what that might have meant is also foolish. Of course other players filled in, but having your best 3-point shooter on the team, when that has been Bradley's weakest facet would have made a huge difference, IMO. I think most people would agree with that.

You just told it like it was Coach. That's the wrong thing to do now days.

[BradleyBrave]

I do have a question for Bradley fans. Let me start by saying I think Andrew Warren is a nice player who would have helped BU this season. However, lets try and put some factual information into this.

A healthy Warren plays probably 32 minutes a game. Whose 32 minutes does he get? AW is a 2/3 guard. You have Sam M. playing a ton at the off guard and scoring 12 ppg in the league. You have Dodie Dunson playing about 26-27 minutes a game and scoring 11 ppg in the league. Then you have Chris Roberts playing 20-25 minutes a game and scoring 8 ppg in the league. At the point McCains plays about 30 mpg.

Now, I guess with Warren then Darian Norris wouldn't have played. But would the production you got from Warren be more than what you got from Sam M., Dunson, and Roberts? The 2/3 position is actually the one position Bradley has a lot of depth.

You just cant inject Andrew Warren and his 32 minutes and 14 ppg and say you would have been that much better. What players wouldn't have played if AW had?

That is a good question and a very valid point. If AW is healthy, I think there's a ripple effect on the backcourt that positively affects everyone. First, I don't think you see Darian Norris at all - I'm not saying Darian playing is a bad thing, I just don't think there would have been a place for him. I also think you see less McCain, because Sam probably takes on more of the PG duties. I think you see less minutes for Sam because McCain would offer some solid backup time. This may have kept Sam a little fresher, and maybe allowed him to shoot the ball better with stronger legs. Dunson and Roberts I think stay the same, and I think you would see a lot of sets of Sam, AW, Dodie and Sam, AW, CR. The biggest beneficiary I think would have been Sammy, as he wouldn't have had to shoulder such a large scoring load, and would not have drawn as much defensive attention.

I think you also need to look at how BU lost some games and look at a lot of the game-changing scenarios where we didn't have that 'go to' scorer when we needed a shot or a bucket. Obviously AW wouldn't have come through 'every' time, but I think BU would have had far fewer of those 5-10 minute scoring lulls (like what did us in at UNI) with a bonafide scorer like AW on the court.

[leebiddlecome]

To try to minimize what that might have meant is also foolish. Of course other players filled in, but having your best 3-point shooter on the team, when that has been Bradley's weakest facet would have made a huge difference, IMO. I think most people would agree with that.

I never once criticized you. I just disagree that losing Will Egolf was the catastrophe that some think it was.

I just asked you to quantify not having Andrew Warren in the lineup. I agree Andrew would have helped in some situations. No doubt. But when he plays then Sam M, Dodie, and Roberts weren't.

Can you quantify for me what Andrew would have produced and who wouldn't have played had he been in there?

[leebiddlecome]

That is a good question and a very valid point. If AW is healthy, I think there's a ripple effect on the backcourt that positively affects everyone. First, I don't think you see Darian Norris at all - I'm not saying Darian playing is a bad thing, I just don't think there would have been a place for him. I also think you see less McCain, because Sam probably takes on more of the PG duties. I think you see less minutes for Sam because McCain would offer some solid backup time. This may have kept Sam a little fresher, and maybe allowed him to shoot the ball better with stronger legs. Dunson and Roberts I think stay the same, and I think you would see a lot of sets of Sam, AW, Dodie and Sam, AW, CR. The biggest beneficiary I think would have been Sammy, as he wouldn't have had to shoulder such a large scoring load, and would not have drawn as much defensive attention.

I think you also need to look at how BU lost some games and look at a lot of the game-changing scenarios where we didn't have that 'go to' scorer when we needed a shot or a bucket. Obviously AW wouldn't have come through 'every' time, but I think BU would have had far fewer of those 5-10 minute scoring lulls (like what did us in at UNI) with a bonafide scorer like AW on the court.

Good point. Im not at all saying BU wouldn't have been better with Warren. They would have. No dout. Im just not sure how much.

Did BU lose a few games they would have won with Andrew? For sure. But Chris Roberts and Dodie Dunson won us a few games that may not have happened if they weren't playing as many minutes. It's a tough call.

I agree with you on Norris. He doesnt get minutes with AW--and I like Darian as a shooter.

[shaunguth]

I've never really understood the whole "starter" thing. Technically, we'll have seven starters returning next season! I think it makes much more sense to look at minutes played rather than labeling someone a starter, which tends to get a little blurry when you have nine different starting lineups throughout the season.

[SFP]

Andrew has been out the entire year. To try to minimize what that might have meant is also foolish. Of course other players filled in, but having your best 3-point shooter on the team, when that has been Bradley's weakest facet would have made a huge difference, IMO. I think most people would agree with that.

Da Coach I'm 100% in agreement! SM played the whole 50 minutes the other night and if we had AW do you think that would have happened? AW besides our best 3 point shooter would have led the team in points, he knows the system so a little less learning from the rest of the guys, other teams would have had to pay attention to him and it would have freed up the other guys, especially the inside game, TW would have had lanes to drive in, we could go a bit bigger at the 2 when needed....Did I miss anything else? IMO by adding AW the sum of the parts increases dramatically. Look at those great Bulls teams! Take MJ out and they barely made the playoffs.

[dogsrus]

I get tired of the 'if' stuff, I really do. However, I think it noteworthy to say that this team has overcome the loss of 2 starters to be one of only 4 teams with a winning league record and to garner a top 4 seed in the MVC Tournament. Sure, 'if' we didn't have injuries maybe we could have contended for a title, but it is what it is and that can't be changed. We played with the hand we were dealt, and I think we have gotten the most out of our guys this year. I think one could argue that this was JL's best year as a coach.

EXACTLY....I talk about injuries becuase they are facts. Many times people take that as "making excuses". What I tell them is I ain't playin or coachin so I don't need to make excuses."

I'm just a fan and I speculate...dream....complain.....wish...etc . When we discuss coulda...woulda...shoulda its just part of being a fan.

Now if JL was constantly talking about injuries (and BOY would he have the right to do so) THEN we'd have a problem. To his credit I don't think he's EVER used the injury excuse.

But as a fan...its a fact and I will talk about it and dream about the "IF ONLY" circumastnces on a regular basis.

[dogsrus]

BU's 5 games better with AW and 2 games better with WE......With AW Norris is a redshirt candidate IMO. We have BOTH guys and BU wins 6 more games IMO.

Losing AW coulda been a catastrophe but credit the team and coaching staff for getting the most out of what we had left. Losing WE hurt depth and what team couldn't use more depth.

[georgethedog]

You are twisting what I said, then criticizing me, for what you erroneously think I said.

I never said anything more than that Will Egolf won the starting 5 position, which he did. And he is out.

Dodie is also out, because of injury. I don't see where I or anyone is "acting like he was gone all season". We don't know if he'll be back, but it would be foolish to think he will be able to return and play at 100%.

Andrew has been out the entire year. To try to minimize what that might have meant is also foolish. Of course other players filled in, but having your best 3-point shooter on the team, when that has been Bradley's weakest facet would have made a huge difference, IMO. I think most people would agree with that.

I also think that AW would have made a difference in our defending the 3 pointer, which as you all know has been my biggest dissapointment with this team. We are all the way through a season and we still can't defend the three consitently. Along with his offensive contributions, I think AW would have made a big positive difference in this deficiency.

As I said in another thread, I firmly believe BU would have beaten UNI both times with AW and mostly because he would have been harder for their shooters to shot over.

[real fan]

I agree with Brocks 100%

[MacabreMob]

If AW had played this season, we woulda seen a lot of the 4 guard lineup with 1 forward (and no center - that's assuming no WE): SM, EM, AW, DD and TW, sprinkling in CR and DN.

[Out of Balance]

That is a good question and a very valid point. If AW is healthy, I think there's a ripple effect on the backcourt that positively affects everyone. First, I don't think you see Darian Norris at all - I'm not saying Darian playing is a bad thing, I just don't think there would have been a place for him. I also think you see less McCain, because Sam probably takes on more of the PG duties. I think you see less minutes for Sam because McCain would offer some solid backup time. This may have kept Sam a little fresher, and maybe allowed him to shoot the ball better with stronger legs. Dunson and Roberts I think stay the same, and I think you would see a lot of sets of Sam, AW, Dodie and Sam, AW, CR. The biggest beneficiary I think would have been Sammy, as he wouldn't have had to shoulder such a large scoring load, and would not have drawn as much defensive attention.

I think you also need to look at how BU lost some games and look at a lot of the game-changing scenarios where we didn't have that 'go to' scorer when we needed a shot or a bucket. Obviously AW wouldn't have come through 'every' time, but I think BU would have had far fewer of those 5-10 minute scoring lulls (like what did us in at UNI) with a bonafide scorer like AW on the court.

Also to add to what you have pointed out BB, with AW's shooting it would of helped our inside play to. There's just something about keeping the defence honest I just hate revisiting all this again and again. We should be happy with how this team and the coachs have hung in there. This team, with a little luck could have been 21-9 right now. But, it's what is, and we should be looking to what we can do in St.Louis not talking and dreaming what we think it could of been We have a very good chance in St. Louis. Lets go get them BU

[braveatheart]

Crazy to say loosing AW maybe didn't hurt us much. AW is our best player. TW is very good but AW is better. Pick the best player on any Valley team this year and imagine him gone. How good would CU be without Woodfox. How about IlSU without Eldrige. UE without Ely, ect.
Come on it is not like we lost our 4th or 5th starter, we lost our best.
The other guys filled in well but they are not AW. Also, deep teams like CU start out classing people when thin teams get gassed late in the year. One more great player saves a lot of legs for crunch time.

[jeffsu]

Crazy to say loosing AW maybe didn't hurt us much. AW is our best player. TW is very good but AW is better. Pick the best player on any Valley team this year and imagine him gone. How good would CU be without Woodfox.

Good enough to beat us... at Carver.

[BradleyBrave]

Good enough to beat us... at Carver.

True, true. But over the long haul CU would not have been the team that they are without Woodfox. Recall last year, the first game Andrew Warren missed with his hand injury, BU went to #15 Drake and won. However, BU couldn't sustain that level of play in his absence, and dropped 2 straight to Creighton to end the year. Sure, the Ruffin incident contributed a bit to that, but we were good enough to take CU to double-OT at their place, but not good enough to beat them either time.