Sam M & Andrew W....

[georgethedog]

I may disagree here. It would depend on their need. I like SM a lot and I love the team play, grit and heart that he brings to every game and play. These are qualities that do make the team better. IMHO I believe AW is a superior basketball talent.

I also believe the starting lineup next year will be:

EM
SM
AW
TB
WE if healthy enough.

I would like to see a little more size. I would like to see Sam M. come off the bench. I think he would be a great sparkplug in that role. Starting 2 guys under 6' tall -- not a championship situation. Other teams with taller guards will be shooting over our heads all night just like this year. Play one of them at a time. I don't think some people have been watching what has happened time and again this year. Sam M. is a decent "heady" player with decent (yet inconsistent) shot, a lot of heart and hustle, but he gets beat off the dribble unless we play a team that does not have good athletes (like last night) and he gets shot over easily by bigger guards. Some of you guys are in denial about this and should seek help...

[BradleyBrave]

I would like to see a little more size. I would like to see Sam M. come off the bench. I think he would be a great sparkplug in that role. Starting 2 guys under 6' tall -- not a championship situation. Other teams with taller guards will be shooting over our heads all night just like this year. Play one of them at a time. I don't think some people have been watching what has happened time and again this year. Sam M. is a decent "heady" player with decent (yet inconsistent) shot, a lot of heart and hustle, but he gets beat off the dribble unless we play a team that does not have good athletes (like last night) and he gets shot over easily by bigger guards.

Exactly GTD. Teams shoot a high percentage from 3 against us even when it appears we're playing good defense because we're too short to truly defend the 3 very well. Very well said.

[BUconnorD]

I may disagree here. It would depend on their need. I like SM a lot and I love the team play, grit and heart that he brings to every game and play. These are qualities that do make the team better. IMHO I believe AW is a superior basketball talent.

I also believe the starting lineup next year will be:

EM
SM
AW
TB
WE if healthy enough.

I really like that backcourt
as for the bigs, its all up in the air at this point
will WE be healthy enough for the 5
How will CR be doing next year
How is Prosser going to fit in the format

all things that are going to be settled in the offseason methinks,
i do like that backcourt...this gives DN some good quality time as a secondary guard.

[ER3]

I would like to see a little more size. I would like to see Sam M. come off the bench. I think he would be a great sparkplug in that role. Starting 2 guys under 6' tall -- not a championship situation. Other teams with taller guards will be shooting over our heads all night just like this year. Play one of them at a time. I don't think some people have been watching what has happened time and again this year. Sam M. is a decent "heady" player with decent (yet inconsistent) shot, a lot of heart and hustle, but he gets beat off the dribble unless we play a team that does not have good athletes (like last night) and he gets shot over easily by bigger guards. Some of you guys are in denial about this and should seek help...

OK, I am an denial, I guess.

I contend that our best lineup this year is when SM, DD, CR, TW, and DC are on the floor.
Next year, I think our best lineup will be when SM, DD, AW, TB, and WE will be on the floor...until proven otherwise.


But, tell me...even if Eddren and Sam are on the floor at the same time....where exactly are all of these big guards on the elite Valley teams that we simply cannot match up with if SM is on the floor??

UNI and Creighton are going to finish 1-2 in the league...and you contend that you simply can't be in a "championship situation" with small guards...so clearly UNI and Creighton must be playing a bunch of 6'5" guys at the guard spots...right?

Well, let's see...UNI plays Farokmanesh, Moran, and Ahelegbe more than anyone else on their roster...How big are they? 6'0", 6'1", and 6'2"...three pretty small guards on the floor all the time. How do they win any games with that puny backcourt?

Creighton is the hottest team in the league, the best team on paper...and they play 5 different guards...and usually some combination of three of them are on the floor all the time...And their guards are 6'0" (Witter), 6'1" (Woodfox), 6'1" (Dotzler), 6'0" (Young), and 6'3" (Stinnett)...I certainly don't think that qualifies as a group of "big guards" as they will almost always have 2 guards on the floor that are 6'1" or under.

There are the two teams that are going to be fighting it out for the Valley title this year...neither of them have these supposedly mandatory "big guards". So, what gives?

Having SM, DD, and AW on the floor makes our backcourt tower over both of these teams regular backcourts...having EM, SM, and AW on the floor makes us as big or bigger than the lineups these Valley teams that find themselves in a "Championship situation" this year.

Seems like those that are clamoring for more size in our back court might be barking up the wrong tree.

[ER3]

Exactly GTD. Teams shoot a high percentage from 3 against us even when it appears we're playing good defense because we're too short to truly defend the 3 very well. Very well said.

So UNI shot well from 3 against us because their "bigger guards" shot over us all game long? Really? Farokmanesh and Moran were the only ones that hurt us from 3...and they are 6'0" and 6'1", respectively...Is that big? I agree that we don't defend the three well, but I don't agree that it is the size that is our problem.

A 6'6" guard that gets overaggressive and leaves his man to help in a situation where he shouldn't still isn't going to get back to affect the wide open three from his man that he left...it doesn't matter how big he is...

[BradleyBrave]

OK, I am an denial, I guess.

I contend that our best lineup this year is when SM, DD, CR, TW, and DC are on the floor.
Next year, I think our best lineup will be when SM, DD, AW, TB, and WE will be on the floor...until proven otherwise.


But, tell me...even if Eddren and Sam are on the floor at the same time....where exactly are all of these big guards on the elite Valley teams that we simply cannot match up with if SM is on the floor??

UNI and Creighton are going to finish 1-2 in the league...and you contend that you simply can't be in a "championship situation" with small guards...so clearly UNI and Creighton must be playing a bunch of 6'5" guys at the guard spots...right?

Well, let's see...UNI plays Farokmanesh, Moran, and Ahelegbe more than anyone else on their roster...How big are they? 6'0", 6'1", and 6'2"...three pretty small guards on the floor all the time. How do they win any games with that puny backcourt?

Creighton is the hottest team in the league, the best team on paper...and they play 5 different guards...and usually some combination of three of them are on the floor all the time...And their guards are 6'0" (Witter), 6'1" (Woodfox), 6'1" (Dotzler), 6'0" (Young), and 6'3" (Stinnett)...I certainly don't think that qualifies as a group of "big guards" as they will almost always have 2 guards on the floor that are 6'1" or under.

There are the two teams that are going to be fighting it out for the Valley title this year...neither of them have these supposedly mandatory "big guards". So, what gives?

Having SM, DD, and AW on the floor makes our backcourt tower over both of these teams regular backcourts...having EM, SM, and AW on the floor makes us as big or bigger than the lineups these Valley teams that find themselves in a "Championship situation" this year.

Seems like those that are clamoring for more size in our back court might be barking up the wrong tree.

We're giving up several inches to guards that are 6'0" and 6'1". I don't care what our guys are listed at, they're 5'10" at the most. You need size, including size at the guard position to be able to win in the league and outside of it.

If you have a truly strong player inside and a strong interior game, then you can get away with smaller guards (BU in 2006, SIU's great teams). However, if you're going to play 4 guys on the perimeter and completely foresake a post game, you had better have size at the guard positions to offset that on both ends. We're playing with no posts and midget guards. The results speak for themselves - mediocre at best.

[BradleyBrave]

So UNI shot well from 3 against us because their "bigger guards" shot over us all game long? Really? Farokmanesh and Moran were the only ones that hurt us from 3...and they are 6'0" and 6'1", respectively...Is that big? I agree that we don't defend the three well, but I don't agree that it is the size that is our problem.

A 6'6" guard that gets overaggressive and leaves his man to help in a situation where he shouldn't still isn't going to get back to affect the wide open three from his man that he left...it doesn't matter how big he is...

6'6" guards are hard to come by. I'll take 3 or 4 guys that range from 6'1" to 6'5" at my guard spots. If they're taught the proper way to defend, teams won't shoot a high percentage from 3 (but the teaching thing is a different discussion altogether).

[BradleyBrave]

So, let me get this straight. Maniscalco and McCain are listed at 6'0" and 5'11"...but you don't care what they are listed at because you know they are several inches shorter.
But yet, when Cavel Witter, Booker Woodfox, Johnny Moran, Ali Farokhmanesh, Josh Young, et al. are listed at 6'0" and 6'1" you take that as the absolute truth and declare that we are giving up "several inches" to these guys? How does that work? BU is the only team shifty enough to exaggerate their listed measurements? Doubtful.

No, I think everyone exaggerates, some exaggerate more than others. I don't know. All I know is midget backcourts don't win anything, and we started a lineup with 3 sub-6 foot guards for several games this year. One of our sub-6 footers is a step slow. None of them can shoot worth a lick. If we're not going to shoot the ball well, we might as well play big and be able to lock people off and contest shots.

If we want to win this league and win games in the NCAA Tournament (which should be the goal of this program), then we either need to get some legitimate post players who can offset playing with smaller guards like they did in 2006, or we need to get bigger guards who fit into the 4 perimeter player/no post Villanova-like system we insist on playing. Nova has big guards, but even they haven't won a d@mn thing playing this way. They'd win even less playing with midget guards that can't shoot. That's what we seem to be doing now.

However...back to the basis of this whole thread...Andrew Warren is twice the player Sammy is. If Sam were out for this whole season and AW was healthy, I think we'd have 17 or 18 wins right now, maybe more. With AW out we're at 15. I like Sammy a lot, but I think the comparison is really, really silly.

[Bradleyguy10]

However...back to the basis of this whole thread...Andrew Warren is twice the player Sammy is. If Sam were out for this whole season and AW was healthy, I think we'd have 17 or 18 wins right now, maybe more. With AW out we're at 15. I like Sammy a lot, but I think the comparison is really, really silly.

It's unfortunate, but I agree with this part extremely. The valley title was a lock this year I think for us had we had AW and WE. It would've been an entire starting line up plus some subs that are all athletic and can play basketball and shoot....would've been nice to see. I think we could've had 20 by now.

[georgethedog]

BB, nice post. I guess you and I are the only ones that have seen our guards shot over all year. Rose colored glasses for the other guys I guess. Like you said, if you are that short, you better be able to shoot (like UNI and Creighton's guards), but our little guys cannot light it up like UNI & Creighton's. Question: Have any of you guys ever watched when McCain, Sam M. or Norris are standing next to our Coach? They are all shorter than Les... Wasn't he the best player in the country under 6' as a senior? He must have grown a few inches because he looks like he towers over McCain and Norris, and is about an inch or so taller than Sam M. Maybe Coach is wearing elevator shoes?

Finally, and I am done discussing the obvious, I don't care about the arguments presented about UNI and Creighton's guards height because it is a moot point. Why? That is because they have been shooting over us (along with most other teams), so either they are taller or are much better athletes and are jumping over our heads? Take your choice fellas, but nobody can deny with a straight face that we haven't been shot over almost the entire season. I just don't want to watch that again all next year.

[Grassman]

Sorry, bb...I am normally in agreement with you about 98% of the time...but to say that Maniscalco doesn't project to start next year or even be the first guard off of the bench is baffling to me.
So, you must think that McCain and Norris are both going to somehow move ahead of Maniscalco in the rotation next year?
Well, that would be great news for us if that were the case, but I don't see it happening.
McCain has no offensive game and/or confidence right now...and his minutes are being scaled back accordingly. I like him as a player, he has good athleticism and toughness and I think he will be a good player for us, but he will not play more minutes than Maniscalco next year...unless he has a miraculous offensive improvement in the off-season.
I like Norris, too...but he is still adjusting to the speed of the D-I game and struggles far worse than Maniscalco defensively at times...I don't see how anyone could realistically project him to move ahead of Maniscalco next year, either.

You can trot out shooting percentages and qualitative assesments about how you don't think Sam can defend, that he's a step slow, and so on...but the fact of the matter is that he plays the most minutes of anyone on the team currently, takes almost all of the shots for this team in crunch time, and is trusted to have the ball in his hands at the crucial moments in games...all of this as a sophomore.

I'm not saying he is going to have his number retired when he is done playing...I just can't believe how little credit he seems to get for his game. I watched him play defense all night long last night, looking for these supposed glaring weaknesses he has, weaknesses that clearly negate everything good he does on the offensive end...and I just don't see it. He gave up an open 3 to McFarland early in the game when he was late rotating back from helping, but other than that, I watched guys try to drive on him all night long, and I never saw one of them beat him...now I fully understand that this was Missouri State, and they are not blessed with the most athletic of guards...but still, the way people talk about Sam, it makes it sound like he is so completely inept defensively that he couldn't stop me from getting to the hole...and I just haven't seen it that way this year as a whole.
I do remember last year and teams spreading the floor and beating Sam like a drum at times...and I'm sure that's where this perception was built. But honestly, I don't remember too many times this year where he has appeared to be totally overmatched on the defensive end (other than a couple games where he was hobbled with his foot injury). Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see with him...but then again, maybe those that have labeled him as an utter defensive liabilty are just seeing what they want to see, as well. It probably goes both ways...

Hey, I am seeing what you are seeing. Sammy will be a key player and contributor during his reamining years at BU! No doubt about it!

[SFP]

I would like to see a bigger lineup no doubt but if all things are equal SM will start next year unless there is another coach. I could be wrong and we'll see a lineup of:
EM
AW
CR
TB
WE again if healthy.

If this happens that means JP and MK are expected to contribute or we picked up a JUCO big. I like going big and this starting lineup would be as athletic as we ever had even with Boogie and ZA.

[BradleyBrave]

I would like to see a bigger lineup no doubt but if all things are equal SM will start next year unless there is another coach. I could be wrong and we'll see a lineup of:
EM
AW
CR
TB
WE again if healthy.

If this happens that means JP and MK are expected to contribute or we picked up a JUCO big. I like going big and this starting lineup would be as athletic as we ever had even with Boogie and ZA.

Why is Sam starting such a given? JL sat him when he wasn't performing at times this year, and had him coming off the bench a few times as well. I wouldn't assume that Sam's spot is set in stone. No one's is really, although I think you'll be hard pressed to have EM or AW out of the starting lineup. Everywhere else is up for grabs IMO.

[SFP]

Fair enough BB! The only thing usually set in stone is the position these players will play. AW would make a great 2 but will play the 3, TB should play the 3 but will be a 4. It would be sweet if JP or MK come in and show some real game and can start at the 4 and then have the rest of the starters move down in position. Then we would have a starting team of EM, AW, TB, JP, WE.....

As someone has said, "if we go big no one will beat us."

[real fan]

I like E.M. a lot but he has not played well offensively for quite some time and defenses are starting to back off of him which is making it a lot harder for our other players to get off open shots, he is going to have to start making some outside shots or we will not be able to play him as much.