Mid-Major Debate

[tornado]

1. Should C-USA now be reclassified as a mid-major league?
2. Should the Mountain West and WAC also be considered mid-major conferences?
3. Is the Missouri Valley Conference no longer a mid-major league?
4. Should Gonzaga be removed from the mid-major voting process?


These are the questions addressed by the folks who have done the Midmajor Top 25 for the past 8 years.
As you might guess, the guy who runs the Midmajor poll answers quite arbitrarily.

http://www.collegeinsider.com/patsos/

[Braves4Life]

Answers

To Q's 1 & 2: They sure as hel l aren't majors!

To Q's 3 & 4: Still mid-majors in my book. I base this on size of institutions in conference, conference consistency in winning from top to bottom, number of blue-chip Top-100 recruits, TV exposure, and number of births in big dance over last five years. Give The Valley a few more years like the last couple and we might be graded up. Coaching longevity has a lot to do with consistency and The Valley is starting to get that, too.

Gonzaga is just missing something (IMO). Maybe it's the lack of exposure and media by being on the West Coast. I don't think I can ever call them a Major. Maybe a move to the Pac 10..................

[MacabreMob]

That was a pretty good read.

One thing I would have said to Patsos about reclassifying CUSA, WAC and MtnWest...

'Can you agree they are not BCS Conferences? With that... maybe they can be reclassified as Mid-Majors because they are not BCS.'

(I did find his comments laughable when mentioning other teams in CUSA - UCF, Marshall, Rice, Tulsa, UTEP, UAB, E Carolina, Houston, SMU, S Miss and Tulane. Almost as if they could be spoken about in the same relation of Basketball-BCS teams in their conference battles.)

See... BCS fans still want to stake claim to 'Tweener Conference Teams like Memphis, Utah, and Fresno St because if they were to be considered Mid-Majors... the gap between BCS and Mid-Majors gets even tighter. When really, BCS believe it is all about them, and then there is the rest - yet they won't let ALL OF THE REST BE MID-MAJORS (which is why many BCS fans I talk to even think Gonzaga has graduated to Major status).

I say reclassify.

Majors are BCS.

Mid-Majors are the rest.

[flipper]

what difference does a label of major or mid-major matter? really don't understand any importance in all this.

[MacabreMob]

what difference does a label of major or mid-major matter? really don't understand any importance in all this.

Well...

As a "Mid-major fan" - I believe all DI teams aspire for similar things. All try to win as many games as possible - do well in their conferences - get to the post season - do well in the post season. All have the chance to get to the Dance and then win 6 (or 7) games in March.

So why the seperation?

First of all - the 'classes' are first decreed by BCS fans. They are elitist. They look down at anyone other than BCS programs (and even then, look down upon their own when it comes to a Nebraska football compared to UNC football, but on the flipside UNC looks down on Nebraska when it comes to hoops).

They are in their league of their own. Self-created. Self-invited members in the Clubhouse.

Then they recognize a few good programs that are like them... like a Utah (under Majerus) or Fresno St (with Tark) or now Memphis (under Calipari). These teams find themselves in conferences the BCS looks down upon but wouldn't mind rubbing elbows with their top couple teams cause the BCS think of them as above the next cut. The next cut being the 'weak but every once in a while scary' Mid-major.

[flipper]

well-put mmob. i see the light.

[MacabreMob]

Let me just add this....

I want to challenge Patsos a little.

He says Mtn West, Wac and CUSA are above Mid-major status and MVC stays as a Mid. One year doesn't create Elite status.

Rick Byrd gets talked up a little like he is the '2nd-coming' of PRI analysis.

So far, I have gone thru all current members of the MVC and CUSA and their RPI's for the past 12 years (that is as far as Jerry Palms data at collegerpi.com would take me).

I have averaged each teams RPI over that period. Then took the average of all teams average.

CUSA's RPI AVE = 133.2307692

MVC's RPI AVE = 130.8230769


Ummm....

I got the impression from Patsos that the MVC has been, is, and will continue to be inferior to CUSA's.

I guess I will also take the "wait and see" approach as well.

So far, I'm winning.

(btw, I will compile the Mtn West and Wac's numbers tomorrow night... kinda time consuming and I am tired)

[MacabreMob]

Sorry it took me so long.

Results.

These are the Conference Average RPI of their current members' average RPI since the 93-94 season.

(for those of you from Rio Linda, PM me for an explanation)

Mountain West: 112.0769231
Atlantic10: 113.6263736
Missouri Valley: 130.8230769
Conference USA: 133.2307692
WesternAthleticConf: 138.8803419

I don't think we rate so bad.

To mention CUSA and the WAC are above Mid-major status (and the MVC) suggests an elitist attitude and without doing your homework.

[MacabreMob]

How do they all rate...

Of the 5 conferences compared, here is how they stacked up in a ranking of their average RPI since 93-94:

1 Charlotte
2 Utah
3 Temple
4 Xavier
5 Memphis
6 Saint Joe's
7 SIU
8 NMex
9 UAB
10 Geo Wash
11 FresnoSt
12 Tulsa
13 UtSt
14 Mass
15 Saint Louis
16 Creighton
17 MSU
18 Hawaii
19 BYU
20 UNLV
21 Wyo
22 Bradley
23 Dayton
24 TCU
25 ColoSt
26 UTEP
27 ISU
28 S Miss
29 Nevada
30 NMSt
31 Richmond
32 Tulane
33 WSU
34 Rh Island
35 SMU
36 Rice
37 St Bonnies
38 UNI
39 BoiseSt
40 E'Ville
41 LaTech
42 Houston
43 SDSt
44 La Salle
45 Marshall
46 UCF
47 Indy St
48 E Carol
49 AirForce
50 Drake
51 Duquesne
52 Idaho
53 Fordham
54 SJSt

[flipper]

bu at 22, not bad.

[chitownBUB]

More on the midmajor debate, and an interesting recap of how the Valley was treated by the bigs last year.

"Any major coach hiding behind that notion that we have cracked the code, tell that coach to come play our teams and see how overrated we are," MVC commissioner Doug Elgin told the Washington Post"



"Maryland coach Gary Williams responded, telling the Post, "They haven't been banging down anyone's door in the ACC to play. The phone works both ways, last time I checked."

Missouri State coach Barry Hinson said he called Maryland almost immediately.
"After we called them, Maryland called us back the next week," Hinson said. "They called and said they would call us back after the ACC tournament. Well, they never called back."
"After they didn't call, we called back," Hinson said.
Maryland offered one game, Hinson said, at a neutral site.

"Read between the lines," the Missouri State coach added. "They barked, I bit. They didn't realize we bit in the Missouri Valley."

http://www.southernillinoisan.com/articles/2006/07/16/sports/16930905.txt

[MacabreMob]

Maryland offered one game, Hinson said, at a neutral site.

I would have said fine. Meet me in Kansas City, Jefferson City or Saint Louis. Then I would tell him to contact Mizzoo and SLU for a series (beginning on the road) which will make their trip worth while since they might be able to salvage a win in the trip against one of those two.

[Braves4Life]

Gary Williams

Plain and simple: GARY WILLIAMS SUCKS He's rude, arrogant, obnoxious, hypocritical, swears like a drunken sailor.....

If you can't tell already, I really can't stand the guy or his school!

[flipper]

Re: Gary Williams

Plain and simple: GARY WILLIAMS SUCKS He's rude, arrogant, obnoxious, hypocritical, swears like a drunken sailor.....

If you can't tell already, I really can't stand the guy or his school!

don't hold back, tell us how you really feel

[Bravesguy]

When Maryland was playing Manhattan on the afternoon of 3/18, we were up in Michigan having fun that Saturday, waiting for BU's Sunday game. We were having lunch in a sports grill and we sat near the TV so we could watch Gary Williams and his Maryland Terrapins play Manhattan in their first round NIT game played on Maryland's own home floor.
We had a great time as we noted the arena was nearly empty. (NIT games are arranged with relatively short notice and many people were gone on spring break or apparently not interested in coming to an NIT game.)
Anyway, Maryland trailed most of the game but caught up with about 5 minutes to go.
From that point on Manhattan did everything right and the Terrapins of Gary Williams self-destructed.
When Maryland's star, Nick Caner Medley committed two quick fouls with about 2 minutes to go, we celebrated, knowing that BIG mouthed Gary Williams, who ripped the midmajors, and disrespected their presence in the postseason, was getting beaten by the lowest seed in the NIT, a midmajor!
Funny sight-Terrapins eating crow.