Postgame thread- BU 60 Wichita State 58

[bluedevils1]

I like the fact that we made one three pointer ( 1-8 ) and won. That is pretty cool. We can't get away with that all the time, but we drove the ball well and didn't rely on the threes yesterday.

[mexicobufan]

If we could pull off a win at Missouri State to go 3-0 in the MVC and AW was ready to come back in the next game do you bring him back? I guess the question is does our MVC record and chance to win the thing change what you might do as far as red shirting AW? Not saying we will win the Missouri State game but was wondering what folks thought about this changing things? I will be at the Missouri State game so lets hope we win.

[numbr_9]

how about the play where Sam M got fouled before he missed the game-winner? Or a couple plays before when they waived off Sam M's and-1, ruling it wasn't continuation? (he hit the free throws)

Calls get missed, yeah maybe DC got away with one at the end, but the game had several "missed" calls, some of which went against us. Im just glad to escape with a tough W.

[Disturbed]

DC, please don't take this wrong, I'm so glad the call wasn't made but, I promise you good officials would have made the call. IT was there. I have rewound it a dozen times this am and its there every time. For a screen to be legal in the front or from the side the screener can get as close to the defender as possible without touching him or still be moving. This was not the case, The defender did not initate contact and was in legal guarding position. Visiting teams normally do not get the call but I'm sure glad we did. If you go back and watch the tape you will agree and it certainly wasn't a flop. Now lets go to MSU and hope its easier.

In today's PJS, JL indicates they discussed this very play at length in the preceding timeout, but yet Collins falls for one of the oldest tricks in the book. It continues to show that DC is a fine looking physical specimen with some skills, but very little basketball IQ. It's frustrating from a fan perspective.

[Da Coach]

Calls get missed, yeah maybe DC got away with one at the end, but the game had several "missed" calls, some of which went against us. Im just glad to escape with a tough W.

I have rerun the last part of the game from my DVR recording several times, and another call missed- Clevin Hannah took a couple extra steps just before he passed the ball to Toure Murry for Wichita's last shot that tied the game. If you have it recorded, check it out.
It should have been a traveling call, but at that point I agree with a no-call, as most refs don't want to get picky in the last few seconds of a close game.

[Braves4Life]

If we could pull off a win at Missouri State to go 3-0 in the MVC and AW was ready to come back in the next game do you bring him back?

Nope! I wouldn't. The decision to RS should be a personal decision, not a team-based decision. I would be selfish and cautious at this point -- take the FULL extra year to play and use the extra year at school to further my education for free. JMO

[Braves4Life]

In today's PJS, JL indicates they discussed this very play at length in the preceding timeout, but yet Collins falls for one of the oldest tricks in the book. It continues to show that DC is a fine looking physical specimen with some skills, but very little basketball IQ. It's frustrating from a fan perspective.

I TOTALLY agree with you here Disturbed. NO excuse for that!

[wily coyote]

I am not saying there wasn't some contact, but I am saying the game does not benetfit from trick plays like that, and the NCAA should discourage refs from calling it, or ban it altogether.
NBA refs will never call a stunt like that a foul, no matter how hard the contact is, because they know it hurts the game. A game should never be decided by such silliness that has no effect on the play.

There is precedence for changing rules to improve the game, and eliminate such questionable charging fouls drawn by players who have no intention of actually playing defense, but rather cleverly position themselves to create contact. The NBA eliminated the under-the-basket charging fouls by the creation of the semicircle under the basket, and I believe the NCAA will eventually do something similar.

If the intent of the WSU player was to screen David Collins away from defending the inbounds pass, then it was a success, and that should be it's own reward. But if the intent was to try to get the official to blow his whistle, as I am sure it was, and award game-tying free throws to WSU, then it should not be the officials who decide the outcome of the game with such a bush-league play, IMO.

The ref decided it was not a foul, and that's good enough for me. The WSU fans who are blaming that non-call for their loss, are delusional.

DC, I will try to answer your comments so that I hope you understand the purpose of the play. Earlier you or someone else made a comment about the NBA not calling it because it was inside the circle. You are 100 % correct,problem is we go by NCAA rules and it was not a "TRICK PLAY" it is a very legal play. The correct call tornado is not "like one of our moving screens" the defender had legal guarding position and the result could have been a foul on David and one and bonus at WS's end unless we had 10 fouls then they would have shot 2. I'd need to go back and look at the tape to see if they were in the super bonus. Your comment on it hurts the game is a little bias. Coach CB also thought we were lucky there was no whistle and that play is so legal it should be rewarded because David violated a rule that is very much a part of the NCAA rules.What happened there was the defense made a very legal play and were not rewarded by a whistle and the official would have not decided the outcome possibly David would have by not adhereing to the rules that were explained to him in the huddle. A rule I might add I have seen used by many coaches including our own CB when he was at Central. I do agree with you that someday the NCAA may go to the NBA circle rule but until they do it should have been enforced,thankfully for us it wasn't.In your last paragraph you say "if the intent of the WSU player was to screen David away from the inbounds pass it worked." That was NOT the INTENT it was to draw a FOUL on DAVID and it worked but we got the no call.End of story. I agree it would have been a hard way to possibly lose but I'D rather be lucky anytime. Lets go MSU and make it 3 ina row. GO BU

[Da Coach]

First- the circle under the basket in the NBA is only used to determine the charge/block in the case of a shot attempt. So if the circle was currently used in college, it would not have come into play in the case we are talking about in last night's game.


Let me pose this question- many times defensive players move backward as they guard an offensive player, especially as the offense brings the ball downcourt or makes a move to the basket. What would/should be the call if another offensive player away from the ball moved up behind the defender as he was moving backward, planted his feet and caused contact? Should a foul be called on the defender who is simply walking backward? If fouls were given every time for such sneaky moves, it turn the game of basketball into a farce of gotcha-moves.

Or how about this one- many times every game an offensive player dribbling the ball will try to run his defender into a stationary man setting a screen. There is always some contact, usually much more than happened last night, and occasionally there is rather violent contact. I have even seen players need to be carried off the court on such plays.
Yet, it is very rare that the ref will blow his whistle and call that a foul on the defensive player on these plays. If you really believe DC should have gotten a foul last night, then you should believe that every single time a player is run into a screener they should get a foul.
Thank goodness that is not the case, or there would be dozens more fouls called every game away from the ball, and the NCAA would be forced to change the rule.

[thefish7]

Btw, I think the refs thought it was so bush league that they went over and had a talking to with Marshall. During the timeout the ref was saying something about pointing accusingly at Marshall and then walked away. Marshall and his assistants just kind of stared at him dumbfounded.

[jasonpeoria911]

I havn't read the post game story so not sure if it was mentioned but here's a couple other interesting happenings from the game...

-TW was awarded with a Flagrant foul in the 1st half while going up for a dunk. Made his 2 FT's and got the ball back. I think him and that dude were jawing it most of the game and then went in for a heated exchange in the 2nd half and both got a T.

-Then SM didn't take a shot the whole first half. How odd is that, our starting PG not take 1 shot in a whole half.

Jason

[ph]

I havn't read the post game story so not sure if it was mentioned but here's a couple other interesting happenings from the game...

-TW was awarded with a Flagrant foul in the 1st half while going up for a dunk. Made his 2 FT's and got the ball back. I think him and that dude were jawing it most of the game and then went in for a heated exchange in the 2nd half and both got a T.

-Then SM didn't take a shot the whole first half. How odd is that, our starting PG not take 1 shot in a whole half.

Jason

I assumed that EM is our starting PG, and SM is more of a SG. A shooting guard not shooting would be even more odd.. Wondered if SM was suffering from something (but he played the entire 2nd half?), again or just hounded and did not have an opportunity.

[wily coyote]

First- the circle under the basket in the NBA is only used to determine the charge/block in the case of a shot attempt. So if the circle was currently used in college, it would not have come into play in the case we are talking about in last night's game.


Let me pose this question- many times defensive players move backward as they guard an offensive player, especially as the offense brings the ball downcourt or makes a move to the basket. What would/should be the call if another offensive player away from the ball moved up behind the defender as he was moving backward, planted his feet and caused contact? Should a foul be called on the defender who is simply walking backward? If fouls were given every time for such sneaky moves, it turn the game of basketball into a farce of gotcha-moves.

Or how about this one- many times every game an offensive player dribbling the ball will try to run his defender into a stationary man setting a screen. There is always some contact, usually much more than happened last night, and occasionally there is rather violent contact. I have even seen players need to be carried off the court on such plays.
Yet, it is very rare that the ref will blow his whistle and call that a foul on the defensive player on these plays. If you really believe DC should have gotten a foul last night, then you should believe that every single time a player is run into a screener they should get a foul.
Thank goodness that is not the case, or there would be dozens more fouls called every game away from the ball, and the NCAA would be forced to change the rule.

DC, your first paragraph is correct. The circle would not have mattered on that throw in,but that does not change the fact that David did indeed run over a legal screen.

Paragraph two: On a back screen where the defender can not see the screener he MUST give the defender one step. NOT so on a screen to the side or front. He must maintain legal guarding postion. We do not do a very good job of setting screens and haven't for several years. The defender can not be moving sideways when the contact occurs. He must be in legal guarding position and you are not when sliding and contact occurs. In your second and third situations you should only see a foul if someone gains an advantage. Most of the time an advantage is not gained ,hence no whistle. I agree with you, there shouldn't be whistles on all contact but there should be where someone gains an advantage. MOst of the time when the defender comes into contact with the screener a switch is made or he rolls off. Only time a whislte should occur when the defender runs into an offensive screener , is when he runs him over or clearly gains an advantage. Did we gain an advantage last night when the officials chose not to call David for running over the screener? We sure did,but we'll take it. Hope that answers your questions.Thanks zebras

[brocks]

Nope! I wouldn't. The decision to RS should be a personal decision, not a team-based decision. I would be selfish and cautious at this point -- take the FULL extra year to play and use the extra year at school to further my education for free. JMO

Absolutely right. This team is far too far along in developing chemistry and improving every game. Love AW, but throwing a rusty guard in the mix right now might actually make the team worse rather than better. Why do that when he can bank a whole season and be part of the juggernaut that should be BU hoops in 2 seasons? Thinking long-term, RS is the way to go. We're already out of contention for an at-large, so unless the staff thinks AW can really put us in position to win he MVC tourney (a long shot), just let it go and let this team keep developing.

[PTownHawkeye]

I may have missed a post somewhere, but what was the explanation for DN not getting into the game?