ESPN.com's Power Rankings: Week 4

[cpacmel]

Preseason rankings mean absolutely nothing. Besides, I'm sure the games are already scheduled by the time those rankings come out.

Well, they mean something. They mean a team has alot coming back or really highly regarded guys coming in.

I think Wright State for example returns 3 or 4 starters from a team that won 21 games last season.

They have totally fallen on their faces to start the season. I don't think many if any saw that coming.

[cpacmel]

BTW, isn't scheduling the #2 team in the Big West a lot like scheduling the #2 Summit League?

Sure. But UM-KC isn't the #2 team in the League. They are middle of the pack, say #6. (preseason) UC-SB won 23 games last year. UM-KC won 11.

Schedule notwithstanding, if ISU can convert during the conference season, they'll be fine. If they hit trouble during the MVC season, they've got no shot but the auto-bid.

Let's be honest..... do you see anyone in the MVC worthy of at-large?

[cpacmel]

I don't know that eithr but let me answer a question with another if I may. WHY would they put together such an abysmal schedule PERIOD?

ANYONE knows thats NOT the way you build a program, get fans back and increase your odds of making the dance.

If BU did that to me I'd ask for my season ticket money back...at least free Beer so I didn't have to go to the games for nothing.

Because ISU and I believe Creighton have policies regarding scheduling. ISU won't do 2 for 1's or 1 for zero's.

Right or wrong they just won't do em.

Only other chances was thru tourneys. We wanted to host one. We had no say on the teams that were coming to Normal.

When nothing else opened up, we took SMU's offer to be in their tourney.

[thefish7]

I have no idea where UMKC comes into the discussion?

The only at-large team I see in the Valley could be ISU. They should be pretty good. It's a shame their schedule sucks, but if they go 16-2 or 15-3 or something in the MVC, then they'll should be fine without getting the autobid. I'm not sure if ISU is a home or road team in the Bracket Buster, also, because either way it could be a defining moment for them.

[shaunguth]

They have totally fallen on their faces to start the season. I don't think many if any saw that coming.

That was my point in saying those rankings don't mean anything. Where was Drake ranked last preseason? It's pointless to rank teams before any of them have even stepped on the court yet. Also, I didn't think Butler would be very good this year based on what they lost, but they seem to be doing alright in their games.

[shaunguth]

ISU won't do 2 for 1's or 1 for zero's.

Right or wrong they just won't do em.

For the record.....the answer is "wrong".

[cpacmel]

I have no idea where UMKC comes into the discussion?

UM-KC is from the Summit League. Right? You brought up the Summit League fishy. BTW, take a look at the Summit League vs. the Big West and tell me which do you think is more impressive to date.

The only at-large team I see in the Valley could be ISU. They should be pretty good. It's a shame their schedule sucks, but if they go 16-2 or 15-3 or something in the MVC, then they'll should be fine without getting the autobid. I'm not sure if ISU is a home or road team in the Bracket Buster, also, because either way it could be a defining moment for them.

So if ISU is the only one you see as a possible AT-Large, what does it say about the rest of the teams in the MVC right now? Or more importantly what does it say about their schedules that here we are the first week of Dec. and for all practically purposes the MVC is a 1 bid league.

ISU is a road team for the BB. But IMO, that makes no difference. The only defining moments for anyone in the MVC are going to happen in St. louis. Well unless you could jockeying for NIT vs. CBI's invites.

[MacabreMob]

ISUred will be a contender and tough to beat I think...top 3 finish easy

I agree. Sorta... Top 3 finish very likely, but nothing's easy in the Big Valley.

[cpacmel]

For the record.....the answer is "wrong".

That's your right to think that way. I think we might have to wait til the end of the year before we can really grade what the Final results of ISU's schedule or anyone else's schedule is though.

I don't have a problem not giving in to the Big Boys (BCS). I am not a fan of our schedule, but I am okay not getting "pimped" out for 2 for 1's or 1 for 0's either.

[MacabreMob]

Let's be honest..... do you see anyone in the MVC worthy of at-large?

C'mon.... this is an MVC team's board and we get pickled on the kool-aide over here!

Ok, I'll be honest now... the MVC Champ (whoever that becomes) is worthy of an at-large if they don't win the auto-bid in St Louis.

[cpacmel]

That was my point in saying those rankings don't mean anything. Where was Drake ranked last preseason? It's pointless to rank teams before any of them have even stepped on the court yet. Also, I didn't think Butler would be very good this year based on what they lost, but they seem to be doing alright in their games.

Yes, there are always going to be surprises. No doubt about that. But when teams go to schedule they base a team's strength on who is returning and who they have coming in.

Before the season started if one were to schedule Wright State, they probably figured they would be getting a veteran team with many players back from a team that won 21 games the season before. I don't think before the season anyone who label them as a "cupcake" or even an average team.

[cpacmel]

C'mon.... this is an MVC team's board and we get pickled on the kool-aide over here!

Ok, I'll be honest now... the MVC Champ (whoever that becomes) is worthy of an at-large if they don't win the auto-bid in St Louis.

I like the MVC kool-aide too. I drink a ton of it.

This is the year the team that wins the tourney in the MVC might not even get an auto bid.

[MacabreMob]

CPac - didn't ISU agree to a 1-for-0 with Cincy a few years ago. Like in the late 90's - I recall them getting a midnight tip-off at Cincy on ESPN or something. It was a late deal and ISU jumped at the chance for exposure.

What about Kansas in 2001 or UIUC in 2002?

[thefish7]

UM-KC is from the Summit League. Right? You brought up the Summit League fishy. BTW, take a look at the Summit League vs. the Big West and tell me which do you think is more impressive to date.


So if ISU is the only one you see as a possible AT-Large, what does it say about the rest of the teams in the MVC right now? Or more importantly what does it say about their schedules that here we are the first week of Dec. and for all practically purposes the MVC is a 1 bid league.

ISU is a road team for the BB. But IMO, that makes no difference. The only defining moments for anyone in the MVC are going to happen in St. louis. Well unless you could jockeying for NIT vs. CBI's invites.

I did bring up the Summit League because I consider them to be a pretty similar conference to the Big West. For what it's worth, UMKC, I don't think, was picked to finish 2nd in the Summit, and the point is moot, since Bradley didn't actually schedule UMKC, they were part of a tournament package.

A big road win for ISU in the midst of a good conference season performance after stomping on the cupcakes in the non-con could be pretty important for an at-large bit for ISU.

Regarding seeing ISU as the only at-largeable school right now is related to performance. The Valley is having a rough time with the non-con, though I'm not sure how any of that is related to what you and I are actually discussing. What we were talking about, was strength of non-con schedules and there are a couple of schools in the Valley who have very tough schedules. ISU isn't one of them. That's all I've ever been debating... The only game that looked like a decent game was the Wright State game.

The 1-bid status of the MVC has more to do with wins and losses than with strength of schedule. Bradley's schedule is just sort of so-so, but it's still much stronger than ISU's. SIU has a very tough schedule, they just aren't converting. On the other side of the spectrum you have ISU-- completely weak schedule but a good record.

[dogsrus]

I'll let Elgin continue MY part in this discussion. I KNEW he read bradleyfans as now even HE has spoken about his displeasure with the ISU schedule and how the newbies (coaches) need to get on board with what he wants and what works for the valley.