WE Injury

[dogsrus]

has there been an official annoucement re Will?

Yes from bradleyfans.com. What more do you want...oh yeah I guess something from the University to confirm it.

[Big Mike]

I was hoping for the best....but from where I sat it looked real bad! Time for others to step it up...it can happen!

[New Guy]

I sit in section 16 as well. The thing I noticed was Sam M was sitting on the bench, he threw down his towel in anger and shook his head immediately. I think he knew it was not good.

[bravetime33]

I was hoping for the best....but from where I sat it looked real bad! Time for others to step it up...it can happen!

Assuming the worse for Will hope and pray for him to have the strength to rehab and come back stronger. He knows he has the ability to contribute. Would it make sense to have Taylor Brown in Will's postion? Just from watching him compete in the few games so far it seems to me he has a real nose for the ball and shown this more than any freshman I have seen for a long time. We would be extremely small but quick to the ball.

[thefish7]

TB might be able to rebound well in the 5, but I think any good post player could score a great many points on him just because of the height differential. It's certainly going to be interesting to see what the coach does.

[Da Coach]

That's not really the case, I think, Tornado. Guys who take a freshman redshirt, get medical redshirts pretty often, if they have a season ender.

The NCAA allows just a 5-year window to complete an athlete's 4 years of eligibility. So he cannot afford to take 2 years of redshirts, or he'll still lose a year of eligibility.
The only exception is a rare waiver of the 5-year rule, that the NCAA occasionally grants on a case-by-case basis.

[tornado]

it is bylaw 14.2 - and section 30.6 explain clearly why a kid with two injury years IS eligible for a 6th year waiver
BUT a kid who voluntarily redshirts is NOT - because it is within his control.

"Five Year Rule"

14.2 SEASONS OF COMPETITION: FIVE-YEAR RULE
A student-athlete shall not engage in more than four seasons of intercollegiate competition in any one sport (see
Bylaws 14.02.6 and 14.3.2). An institution shall not permit a student-athlete to represent it in intercollegiate
competition unless the individual completes all of his or her seasons of participation in all sports within the time
periods specified below:
14.2.1 Five-Year Rule. A student-athlete shall complete his or her seasons of participation within five calendar
years from the beginning of the semester or quarter in which the student-athlete first registered for a minimum
full-time program of studies in a collegiate institution, with time spent in the armed services, on official church
missions or with recognized foreign aid services of the U.S. government being excepted. For foreign students,
service in the armed forces or on an official church mission of the student??™s home country is considered equivalent
to such service in the United States.
14.2.1.1 Determining the Start of the Five-Year Period. For purposes of starting the count of time
under the five-year rule, a student-athlete shall be considered registered at a collegiate institution (domestic or
foreign; see Bylaw 14.02.3) when the student-athlete initially registers in a regular term (semester or quarter)
of an academic year for a minimum full-time program of studies, as determined by the institution, and attends
the student??™s first day of classes for that term (see Bylaw 14.2.2).
14.2.1.2 Service Exceptions to the Five-Year Rule. Time spent in the armed services, on official church
missions or with recognized foreign aid services of the U.S. government is excepted from the application of
the five-year rule. Among such services that qualify a student-athlete for an extension of the five-year rule
are:
(a) Military Sea Transport Service;
(b) Peace Corps; or
(c) Service as a conscientious objector ordered by the Selective Service Commission (or the equivalent authority
in a foreign nation) in lieu of active military duty.
14.2.1.2.1 Elapsed Time/Service to Enrollment. If a student-athlete enrolls in a regular term of
a collegiate institution at the first opportunity following completion of any one of the commitments
described in the exceptions to this bylaw, the elapsed time (the exact number of calendar days) between
completion of the commitment and the first opportunity for enrollment may be added to the exact
number of days served on active duty in the armed services, with foreign aid services or on official church
missions and will not count toward the student-athlete??™s five years of eligibility. It is not permissible to
extend the five-year period by any additional time beyond the first opportunity to enroll (the opening
day of classes of the first regular term at the institution in which the student-athlete enrolls as a regular
student immediately following the termination of the active-duty commitment).
14.2.1.2.2 Collegiate Enrollment Concurrent with Service Assignment. Any time in which a
student athlete is enrolled for a minimum full-time load as a regular student in a collegiate institution
while simultaneously on active duty in the United States military, on an official church mission or with a
recognized foreign aid service of the United States government shall count against the five calendar years
in which the four seasons of eligibility must be completed.
14.2.1.3 Pregnancy Exception. A member institution may approve a one-year extension of the five-year
period of eligibility for a female student-athlete for reasons of pregnancy.
14.2.1.4 Athletics Activities Waiver. The Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement, or a committee
designated by it, shall have the authority to waive this provision by a two-thirds majority of its members
present and voting to permit student-athletes to participate in:
136
(a) Official Pan American, World Championships, World Cup, World University and Olympic training,
tryouts and competition; (Revised: 1/10/91, 1/9/96)
(b) Officially recognized training and competition directly qualifying participants for final Olympic tryouts;
or
(c) Official tryouts and competition involving national teams sponsored by the appropriate national governing
bodies of the U.S. Olympic Committee (or, for student-athletes representing another nation, the
equivalent organization of that nation, or, for student-athletes competing in a non-Olympic sport, the
equivalent organization of that sport).
14.2.1.4.1 Athletics Activity Waiver Criteria. Extensions of the five-year period of eligibility for
student-athletes by the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement, or its designated committee, shall
be based on the following criteria: The member institution in which the student-athlete is enrolled must
establish to the satisfaction of the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement (by objective evidence)
that the student-athlete was unable to participate in intercollegiate athletics as a result of participation
in one of the activities listed in the above legislation for a specific period of time. Further, such an extension
shall be limited to one time and for a period not to exceed one year per student-athlete, per sport.
(Revised: 8/11/98 )
14.2.1.5 Additional Waivers. The Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement, by a two-thirds majority
of its members present and voting, may approve such additional waivers to the five-year rule as it deems
appropriate (see Bylaw 30.6.1 for criteria)."

and here are the criteria in which an athlete COULD get a 6th year...it must ALWAYS be something that is OUTSIDE of the athlete's control.....so a voluntary redshirt would NOT have fulfilled the criteria.

"30.6 FIVE-YEAR RULE WAIVER
As authorized in Bylaw 14.2.1.5, the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement, or a Committee on Student-
Athlete Reinstatement-designated committee, by a two-thirds majority of its members present and voting, may
approve waivers of the five-year rule in addition to the waivers in Bylaw 14.2.1.4.
30.6.1 Waiver Criteria. A waiver of the five-year period of eligibility is designed to provide a student-athlete
with the opportunity to participate in four seasons of intercollegiate competition within a five-year period. This
waiver may be granted, based upon objective evidence, for reasons that are beyond the control of the student athlete
or the institution, which deprive the student-athlete of the opportunity to participate for more than one
season in his/her sport within the five-year period. The Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement reserves the
right to review requests that do not meet the more-than-one-year criteria detailed in this bylaw for circumstances
of extraordinary or extreme hardship. A student-athlete who has exhausted his or her five years of eligibility may
continue to practice (but not compete) for a maximum of 30 consecutive calendar days, provided the student athlete??™s
institution has submitted a waiver request. The student-athlete may not commence practice until the
institution has filed such a request. Further, if such a request is denied prior to exhausting the 30 day practice period,
the student-athlete must cease all practice activities upon the institution??™s notification of the denial. (Revised:
4/17/91, 1/11/94, 8/10/94, 10/12/95, 4/27/00)

30.6.1.1 Circumstances Beyond Control. Circumstances considered to be beyond the control of the student-
athlete or the institution and do not cause a participation opportunity to be used shall include, but are not
limited to, the following: (Adopted: 8/10/94; Revised: 10/12/95)
(a) Situations clearly supported by contemporaneous medical documentation, which states that a student athlete
is unable to participate in intercollegiate competition as a result of incapacitating physical or
mental circumstances;
(b) The student-athlete is unable to participate in intercollegiate athletics as a result of a life-threatening or
incapacitating injury or illness suffered by a member of the student-athlete??™s immediate family, which
clearly is supported by contemporaneous medical documentation; (Revised: 1/9/06)
(c) Reliance by the student-athlete upon written, contemporaneous, clearly erroneous academic advice provided
to the student-athlete from a specific academic authority from a collegiate institution regarding
the academic status of the student-athlete or prospective student-athlete, which directly leads to that
individual not being eligible to participate and, but for the clearly erroneous advice, the student-athlete
would have established eligibility for intercollegiate competition; (Revised: 10/9/96)
(d) Natural disasters (e.g., earthquake, flood); and
(e) Extreme financial difficulties as a result of a specific event (e.g., layoff, death in the family) experienced
by the student-athlete or by an individual upon whom the student-athlete is legally dependent, which
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Administrative
Regulations
359
prohibit the student-athlete from participating in intercollegiate athletics. These circumstances must be
clearly supported by objective documentation (e.g., decree of bankruptcy, proof of termination) and
must be beyond the control of the student-athlete or the individual upon whom the student-athlete is
legally dependent. (Adopted: 10/12/95; Revised: 8/12/97)

30.6.1.2 Circumstances Within Control. Circumstances that are considered to be within the control of the
student-athlete or the institution and cause a participation opportunity to be used include, but are not limited
to, the following: (Adopted: 8/10/94; Revised: 10/12/95)
(a) A student-athlete??™s decision to attend an institution that does not sponsor his/her sport, or decides not to
participate at an institution that does sponsor his/her sport;
(b) An inability to participate due to failure to meet institutional/conference or NCAA academic requirements,
or disciplinary reasons or incarceration culminating in or resulting from a conviction; (Revised:
10/12/95)
(c) Reliance by a student-athlete upon misinformation from a coaching staff member;
(d) Redshirt year;
(e) An inability to participate as a result of a transfer year in residence or fulfilling a condition for restoration
of eligibility; and
(f ) A student-athlete??™s lack of understanding regarding the specific starting date of his or her five-year period
of eligibility. (Adopted: 10/9/96)"

Note near the bottom in RED that a redshirt year IS within an athlete's control thus cannot be used to warrant a 6th year.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Division_1_Manual_2008-09e9e568a1-c269-4423-9ca5-16d6827c16bc.pdf

(do not attempt to download if you have dial-up, as this file is the entire bylaws of NCAA and is very long.
It takes about 30 seconds with high speed but will lock you up if you are on a slower service.)

[thefish7]

Okay, but the injury was not in Will's control. So the second redshirt for medical purposes could still happen. And 6th years have been allowed for exactly that reason. For whatever it's worth, I was not on the redshirt Egolf wagon last season-- and don't care about it now. Just didn't think Will potentially seeking a medical redshirt had anything to do with sticking a nail in any coffin, because 6th year eligibility has been granted to players for medical reasons after a voluntary redshirt has already been taken.

[tornado]

NO-- because had Will chosen to redshirt last year, that IS in his control and then he would lose this year as well and have no potential of getting a 6th year.

Now, he still has 3 years to play his last 3 years starting fall of 2009


and it IS a very difficult injury to come back from...virtually nobody ever comes back 100%
too bad some Valley message boards are already using this as yet another cause to pile on BU..

[thefish7]

So then how do you explain the other players who've received a 6th year of eligibility for medical reasons after already having taken a voluntary redshirt prior to the injury?

[tornado]

fish...the scenario you have cited has NOT happened....give me one example??

[thefish7]

In looking I didn't find one immediately, but I did find one where a player redshirted for transfer (certainly a voluntary action), and then was awarded a medical redshirt.

[Braves4Life]

and it IS a very difficult injury to come back from...virtually nobody ever comes back 100%
.

If this is true Will will definately need to change his game to that of an outside spot-up shooter, ala Stemler.

[Da Coach]

I didn't see this posted yet-

Dave Reynolds has a column for tomorrow's PJ Star--
Bradley's Egolf out for season
BU center suffers from torn ACL

http://www.pjstar.com/sports/x1196579505/Bradleys-Egolf-out-for-season

[tornado]

In looking I didn't find one immediately, but I did find one where a player redshirted for transfer (certainly a voluntary action), and then was awarded a medical redshirt.

even that scenario has virtually never happened...
however, recently if kids leave and transfer with a coaching change then I know of ONE example when the NCAA allowed it as not voluntary deeming it was prompted by the coaching change.

BUT it's never allowed if a kid voluntarily chooses to redshirt outside of an injury, or uses a year due to academics.
Then he gets five years to complete his eligibility but never a 6th.

I cited the NCAA rules...check them out...it clearly says the 6th year is allowed only when the two seasons lost were to conditions OUTSIDE the control of the player or the institution.