Creighton Loses/P'Allen Benched

[BU and the Lesticles]

Since we are looking at the first few years of each coach's tenure, let's look at the couple season's prior to them taking over. With Rick Johnson only coaching three seasons at CU prior to Altman let's say we just use that same time period just to give some perspective.

Creighton was 24-59 overall (.289) and 16-38 (.296) in the MVC under Johnson.

In Mo's last three years Bradley was 42-48 (.467) and 27-27 (.500) in the MVC with an NIT appearance.

The programs were hardly in similar circumstances when the respective coaches took over.

[BradleyBrave]

Dana had only two 20-win seasons in his first six at Creighton, JL has 3

Dana was 99-78 in his first 6 years at CU, JL is 105-90 -- not too different...

I see a lot of similarities...
If Dana Altman was held to the same standards in his first 6 years at Creighton as JL has been held to by some at BU,
he'd have been canned when after six season he had only produced ONE that didn't have double digit losses.
In fact, in his first 11 seasons as head coach, he only had ONE that didn't have double digit losses and that one had 9.
So in his first 11 seasons as head coach, Dana had 145 losses, avg. 13.3 losses/yr.
I know a whole lot of people who claim to be Bradley fans who wouldn't tolerate that here.

There are no similarities and I can't believe this is still being discussed. Jim's not Dana and BU isn't Creighton.

[Scouter]

Dana had only two 20-win seasons in his first six at Creighton, JL has 3

I really hate this "three consecutive 20-win seasons" line. BU also lost 17 games last year.

[braves12]

I think it could be said, that given a choice, a majority of posters would choose Les over Altman.

[SFP]

I think it could be said, that given a choice, a majority of posters would choose Les over Altman.

I agree with that statement but choosing Les over Dana has to do more with his DNA, loyalty, whatever you want to call it then straight up coaching, records or whatever criteria you want to chose of who is better. JL, IMO is a better coach for BU then Dana could be for BU.

[ER3]

I think it could be said, that given a choice, a majority of posters would choose Les over Altman.

Ummm. Really? Why would you say that?

I like Les and I'm satisfied with the overall job he has done at BU, but Altman is a better coach...it isn't even disputable...and Creighton has been a far better program under his watch than BU has been with Les...and that is pretty clear cut.

If all things were equal, if money didn't factor into the equation, etc....I don't see how anyone could make a very strong argument that they wouldn't prefer to have Altman for a coach rather than Les. Altman is the best coach in the Valley, and I'd take him at the helm of my program 100 times out of 100 over Les, Lowery, Jankovich, or any other Valley coach you want to put in that blank...

[Braves4Life]

I think it could be said, that given a choice, a majority of posters would choose Les over Altman.

Ummm. Really? Why would you say that?

I like Les and I'm satisfied with the overall job he has done at BU, but Altman is a better coach...it isn't even disputable...and Creighton has been a far better program under his watch than BU has been with Les...and that is pretty clear cut.

If all things were equal, if money didn't factor into the equation, etc....I don't see how anyone could make a very strong argument that they wouldn't prefer to have Altman for a coach rather than Les. Altman is the best coach in the Valley, and I'd take him at the helm of my program 100 times out of 100 over Les, Lowery, Jankovich, or any other Valley coach you want to put in that blank...

I agree with Braves12 . Les is a better fit for Bradley than Altman. College basketball is about more than just wins and losses. It's about loyalty, respect, heritage, honesty, family..... Les' brother Tom was a good an honorable Bradley Brave who's gone on to a successful business career. The same could be said for Jim. He's a former player and alumni that has brought honor to The University through his character, honesty, hard work, and committment to Bradley University. I only hope his son chooses to follow "the old man" to The Hilltop, even if he only amounts to a "bench warmer".

This is what makes Bradley such a great university and community; I hope it always stays that way. And I hope J. Les continues as our coach for as long as he chooses. I am confident that he'll continue to put a quality product on the floor for Bradley and the Peoria community. I'm even more confident that he'll continue to bring quality, well-spoken kids who graduate to The Hilltop that we can be proud to call our own.

[SFP]

I could not have said it better then Braves4Life....To me it is not always about W or L. I for one take some of the intangibles that B4L mentioned into consideration.

[Out of Bounce]

I agree with Braves12 . Les is a better fit for Bradley than Altman. College basketball is about more than just wins and losses. It's about loyalty, respect, heritage, honesty, family..... Les' brother Tom was a good an honorable Bradley Brave who's gone on to a successful business career. The same could be said for Jim. He's a former player and alumni that has brought honor to The University through his character, honesty, hard work, and committment to Bradley University. I only hope his son chooses to follow "the old man" to The Hilltop, even if he only amounts to a "bench warmer".

This is what makes Bradley such a great university and community; I hope it always stays that way. And I hope J. Les continues as our coach for as long as he chooses. I am confident that he'll continue to put a quality product on the floor for Bradley and the Peoria community. I'm even more confident that he'll continue to bring quality, well-spoken kids who graduate to The Hilltop that we can be proud to call our own.

Great Job B4L, I totally agree and I think the best is to come for JL the coach. I also say it is time to win a MVC title and get back to the big dance

[BradleyBrave]

I think it could be said, that given a choice, a majority of posters would choose Les over Altman.

For what? A game of one-on-one? Stock advice?

[ER3]

I think it could be said, that given a choice, a majority of posters would choose Les over Altman.

For what? A game of one-on-one? Stock advice?

Nice...
Yep, for those two purposes I'd take Les over Altman...and maybe if I needed a guy to star in a Better Banks commercial. I'd take Les over Altman for that job...but I think that would be about it.

[braves12]

What about for loyalty?

[ER3]

I agree with Braves12 . Les is a better fit for Bradley than Altman. College basketball is about more than just wins and losses. It's about loyalty, respect, heritage, honesty, family..... Les' brother Tom was a good an honorable Bradley Brave who's gone on to a successful business career. The same could be said for Jim. He's a former player and alumni that has brought honor to The University through his character, honesty, hard work, and committment to Bradley University. I only hope his son chooses to follow "the old man" to The Hilltop, even if he only amounts to a "bench warmer".

This is what makes Bradley such a great university and community; I hope it always stays that way. And I hope J. Les continues as our coach for as long as he chooses. I am confident that he'll continue to put a quality product on the floor for Bradley and the Peoria community. I'm even more confident that he'll continue to bring quality, well-spoken kids who graduate to The Hilltop that we can be proud to call our own.

I'd prefer it if Les could put together a group of "quality, well-spoken kids that we can be proud to call our own" that could actually win the Valley again in my lifetime.
In fact, I'd be perfectly happy if a few "not so well-spoken kids" came to town for a couple years if they could bring a Valley title or two with them. I'd find a way to be "proud to call them my own" if they could just put up a couple years later than 1996 on the Valley Champs banner in Carver.

[ER3]

What about for loyalty?

Loyalty is great...but it doesn't help with the Xs and Os. And last time I checked loyalty isn't one of the criteria that the NCAA Selection Committee uses to make their at-large selections...

This isn't a knock on Les, although I'm sure you are all going to take it that way...I truly do hope he turns this program into a consistent Valley winner...It would make for a great, great story....Once a Brave, Always a Brave...yadda yadda yadda...

But Altman is a superior coach...a far superior coach at this point in time...and that's the primary qualification I'm looking for if I get to choose the head coach for my favorite college basketball team.

Having a bunch of nice, well-spoken kids wearing BU uniforms is...well...nice. And if they all try real hard, and never quit, and call you 'sir' when they meet you at the Itoo Hall...well, that's all very nice as well. But they keep score at the games for a reason. Just win, baby.

[Braves4Life]

Wow! I guess I read you wrong ER3. Last I checked the Bradley Braves were a college team