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Old 03-26-2011, 10:10 PM
Bravesfan Bravesfan is offline
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Default OT: Caterpillar threatening to leave Illinois!

This is NOT good! The CEO of Caterpillar is threatening to move his company out of Illinois due to the $40 million the CEO says the new tax increase will cost his company.

Now we all know that if Caterpillar leaves, this will kill Peoria! I know that neighboring states supposedly have higher tax rates, but Quinn's tax increase will cause existing Illinois companies to scramble to cover costs that will greatly jump in short order.

So, Quinn's response to all of this? He doesn't believe Caterpillar will leave! Oh really?!

You know Governor, that type of condescension is what will eventually blow up in your face when Illinois starts losing big companies like this! I suggest you better listen REALLY carefully to what Caterpillar has to say because in spite of the money they make, $40 million dollars is an awful lot of money taken out of a company due to taxes that no one can account for in the first place! And I don't care what political party people align themselves with. You do NOT raise taxes during a recession, no exceptions!

If Quinn thinks that the state can live without Caterpillar, he should visit Peoria 20 years from now and see what a ghost town it would be! Try telling Peoria residents how easy it is to live without the auto industry like Detroit has been dealing with over the past decade or so!
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Old 03-26-2011, 10:18 PM
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Stryker Stryker is offline
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This is a great example of what is going to continue in america and across the globe in developed nations. Governments bought out by special interests and trying to win as many votes as possible have given entitlement programs to whoever they think will pay them and keep them in office. Now, when the revenue is simply not there to support these programs, the "progressives" and life long politicians believe they can tax their way out of it. Not so.

It is going to be very difficult, but the time for people to lose their attitudes of entitlement and realize that they have no right to receive a handout from the government. This is the greatest nation to ever exist because everyone has a chance to fulfill their dreams. But that does not mean you are entitled to achieving that dream. Or entitled to other peoples money. It will be a long and rude awakening for 30% of the american population.
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Old 03-26-2011, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Stryker View Post
This is a great example of what is going to continue in america and across the globe in developed nations. Governments bought out by special interests and trying to win as many votes as possible have given entitlement programs to whoever they think will pay them and keep them in office. Now, when the revenue is simply not there to support these programs, the "progressives" and life long politicians believe they can tax their way out of it. Not so.

It is going to be very difficult, but the time for people to lose their attitudes of entitlement and realize that they have no right to receive a handout from the government. This is the greatest nation to ever exist because everyone has a chance to fulfill their dreams. But that does not mean you are entitled to achieving that dream. Or entitled to other peoples money. It will be a long and rude awakening for 30% of the american population.
Yes it will! All great points!
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Old 03-26-2011, 10:29 PM
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sousaman2089 sousaman2089 is offline
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That would be horrible. My mom, my dad, my brother, my sister and her husband all work at CAT.

Plus, trying to get this to a somewhat Bradley topic, it would be very bad for Bradley because of the relationship the two have had.

It's also funny how they are threatening this AFTER they signed the new contract with the UAW.
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Old 03-26-2011, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sousaman2089 View Post
That would be horrible. My mom, my dad, my brother, my sister and her husband all work at CAT.

Plus, trying to get this to a somewhat Bradley topic, it would be very bad for Bradley because of the relationship the two have had.

It's also funny how they are threatening this AFTER they signed the new contract with the UAW.
Does not really matter. They could easily locate to a right to work state like Texas and make up for it in a very short time period. In fact I have heard CAT employees sugest that CAT will not even be based in the US in 20-30 years.
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:51 AM
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Is the CEO still Jim Owens?
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:53 AM
Bravesfan Bravesfan is offline
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Originally Posted by sousaman2089 View Post
That would be horrible. My mom, my dad, my brother, my sister and her husband all work at CAT.

Plus, trying to get this to a somewhat Bradley topic, it would be very bad for Bradley because of the relationship the two have had.

It's also funny how they are threatening this AFTER they signed the new contract with the UAW.
Yup! That would be bad for the reputation of Bradley as wll due to their relationship. This is a no-win situation for all involved, but especially for our "esteemed" governor, who in my opinion really stepped into a deep pile here!
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Old 03-26-2011, 10:29 PM
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If I remember correctly, Navistar was going to relocate its HQ to states like Indiana because neighbors near a vacant office building in the western suburbs didn't want the noise of an engine testing site. Ultimately, the state gave the company a bunch of tax incentives, and they will move into that vacant office building.

I'm not blind to think that CAT is/could outsource certain functions elsewhere, maybe moving stuff to Nashville where their financial services unit is headquartered. But they would not leave Illinois. My point is that the state and CAT will reach a deal for some very favorable tax incentives, but then again the state does not have the money.

How many potential employees decide not to go with CAT because they don't want to be in Central Illinois?
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:59 AM
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If I remember correctly, Navistar was going to relocate its HQ to states like Indiana because neighbors near a vacant office building in the western suburbs didn't want the noise of an engine testing site. Ultimately, the state gave the company a bunch of tax incentives, and they will move into that vacant office building.

I'm not blind to think that CAT is/could outsource certain functions elsewhere, maybe moving stuff to Nashville where their financial services unit is headquartered. But they would not leave Illinois. My point is that the state and CAT will reach a deal for some very favorable tax incentives, but then again the state does not have the money.

How many potential employees decide not to go with CAT because they don't want to be in Central Illinois?
My points exactly! There is a reason why big corporations get tax incentives. Not because they are making money, but because a big income tax increase like Quinn put through will not only turn a big profit into a loss, but potentially put thousands of employees at risk of losing their jobs! This is not a bad thing if it saves the jobs of many hard working people, many of who have families to support as well.

And if you think big corporations like Caterpillar will have issues with this tax increase, what about most of the small mom and pop businesses that have very little room for error these days? This again is why the politicians cannot raise taxes during a recession! It's a no-win situation for everyone involved!
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Bravesfan View Post
This is NOT good! The CEO of Caterpillar is threatening to move his company out of Illinois due to the $40 million the CEO says the new tax increase will cost his company.

Now we all know that if Caterpillar leaves, this will kill Peoria! I know that neighboring states supposedly have higher tax rates, but Quinn's tax increase will cause existing Illinois companies to scramble to cover costs that will greatly jump in short order.

So, Quinn's response to all of this? He doesn't believe Caterpillar will leave! Oh really?!

You know Governor, that type of condescension is what will eventually blow up in your face when Illinois starts losing big companies like this! I suggest you better listen REALLY carefully to what Caterpillar has to say because in spite of the money they make, $40 million dollars is an awful lot of money taken out of a company due to taxes that no one can account for in the first place! And I don't care what political party people align themselves with. You do NOT raise taxes during a recession, no exceptions!

If Quinn thinks that the state can live without Caterpillar, he should visit Peoria 20 years from now and see what a ghost town it would be! Try telling Peoria residents how easy it is to live without the auto industry like Detroit has been dealing with over the past decade or so!

I totally agree with this. If Cat leaves it will be bad for the state but a disaster for Peoria. Despite a large and growing medical community here in Peoria, this would be a terrible thing. You mentioned Detroit, well here is one report that says they have lost 25% of their population because of problems in the auto industry.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...95202-383.html

This the 2nd time a change of policy could cost Cat a boat load of money. I would love to see their projections on what Obamacare is going to cost them.
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Old 03-27-2011, 03:00 AM
algotrader algotrader is offline
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Caterpillar has a market cap of 70 billion dollars. Paying taxes is part of your civic duty to better society as a whole. In fact, CAT is worth 25% more now than it was during the HEIGHT of the housing bubble. When super rich corporations/individuals complain about a tiny percentage of their income, it sickens me. Caterpillar made 42.6 BILLION dollars in 2010. They're complaining about 0.0009% of last years earnings. This amount does not hurt them in any way shape or form. It is all a show. Our government needs to get tough on corporate greed.

Open your wallet. Does it have ANY money in it? That's more than a lot of billion dollar corporations pay in taxes. We need to wake up and realize that half of the reason our country is in the deficit we have is because corporations are grossly taking advantage of tax loopholes.

Its already disgusting that I pay half of the taxes as most everyone I know. And I will happily (and greedily) pay as little in to the system as possible until it is fixed. But it needs to be fixed. Across the board. Don't get mad at the state of Illinois. Get mad at the disgusting greed of Caterpillar.
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Old 03-27-2011, 03:58 AM
AE Braves Fan AE Braves Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by algotrader View Post
Caterpillar has a market cap of 70 billion dollars. Paying taxes is part of your civic duty to better society as a whole. In fact, CAT is worth 25% more now than it was during the HEIGHT of the housing bubble. When super rich corporations/individuals complain about a tiny percentage of their income, it sickens me. Caterpillar made 42.6 BILLION dollars in 2010. They're complaining about 0.0009% of last years earnings. This amount does not hurt them in any way shape or form. It is all a show. Our government needs to get tough on corporate greed.

Open your wallet. Does it have ANY money in it? That's more than a lot of billion dollar corporations pay in taxes. We need to wake up and realize that half of the reason our country is in the deficit we have is because corporations are grossly taking advantage of tax loopholes.

Its already disgusting that I pay half of the taxes as most everyone I know. And I will happily (and greedily) pay as little in to the system as possible until it is fixed. But it needs to be fixed. Across the board. Don't get mad at the state of Illinois. Get mad at the disgusting greed of Caterpillar.
If the government was run like a business (like CAT), we wouldn't be in the mess that we're in. Do you understand what it takes to be competitive in a global marketplace? Caterpillar's "greed" is what supports central Illinois. For how much longer?

Do you know what happens when you raise taxes on corporations? Since they can't just print money like the criminals running our government, they pass that tax right on to the customer. Komatsu loves Quinn.

And they're not complaining about 0.0009% of last year's earnings - the $40 million comes directly out of the EMPLOYEE paychecks.


Quote:
The Illinois tax increase will cost Caterpillar’s 23,000 employees in the state about $40 million this year, said Jim Dugan, the company’s chief spokesman. Higher taxes make it harder for Caterpillar to attract and retain engineers, accountants and other employees, Dugan said. He added that Caterpillar’s corporate taxes in the state also will increase but provided no estimate on the added cost.
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Old 03-27-2011, 09:05 AM
Da Coach Da Coach is online now
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And this isn't a threat that Pat Quinn should just blow off as an empty threat like he did yesterday-
Quinn: "Caterpillar's not leaving Illinois"
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=8036143

There have already been major businesses leave Illinois for more favorable business environments in other states, and companies like Caterpillar have already shifted major portions of their businesses to other states. Today, there are more than 20,000 fewer jobs in Peoria than there were at the time of the 1992 strike, and more than 40,000 fewer than at Cat's peak in the 1970's. Much of that decline is due to shifting jobs to other states, and outside the US. Caterpillar still employs a total of about 100,000 people, but half of them are outside the US. and the majority of it's US workers are now located in states other than Illinois due to more favorable business environments-
Caterpillar now has manufacturing facilities located in Clayton North Carolina, Sanford North Carolina, Greenville South Carolina, Corinth Mississippi, Dyersburg Tennessee, Griffin Georgia, LaGrange Texas, Seguin Texas, and North Little Rock Arkansas. You can thank the tax and pro-labor environment of the state of Illinois (plus the UAW) for that.
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Old 03-27-2011, 09:33 AM
ManMythLegend ManMythLegend is offline
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If you guys read the article. Doug Oberhelman specifically says "this is not a threat".
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Old 03-27-2011, 02:14 PM
Bravesfan Bravesfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Coach View Post
And this isn't a threat that Pat Quinn should just blow off as an empty threat like he did yesterday-
Quinn: "Caterpillar's not leaving Illinois"
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=8036143

There have already been major businesses leave Illinois for more favorable business environments in other states, and companies like Caterpillar have already shifted major portions of their businesses to other states. Today, there are more than 20,000 fewer jobs in Peoria than there were at the time of the 1992 strike, and more than 40,000 fewer than at Cat's peak in the 1970's. Much of that decline is due to shifting jobs to other states, and outside the US. Caterpillar still employs a total of about 100,000 people, but half of them are outside the US. and the majority of it's US workers are now located in states other than Illinois due to more favorable business environments-
Caterpillar now has manufacturing facilities located in Clayton North Carolina, Sanford North Carolina, Greenville South Carolina, Corinth Mississippi, Dyersburg Tennessee, Griffin Georgia, LaGrange Texas, Seguin Texas, and North Little Rock Arkansas. You can thank the tax and pro-labor environment of the state of Illinois (plus the UAW) for that.
Yeah, and I didn't even realize this! So it's already gotten worse in Peoria because of the state's ineptitude over the years! Not good, but Caterpillar leaving all together will just succeed in sticking a fork in Peoria, no way around that!
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algotrader View Post
Caterpillar has a market cap of 70 billion dollars. Paying taxes is part of your civic duty to better society as a whole. In fact, CAT is worth 25% more now than it was during the HEIGHT of the housing bubble. When super rich corporations/individuals complain about a tiny percentage of their income, it sickens me. Caterpillar made 42.6 BILLION dollars in 2010. They're complaining about 0.0009% of last years earnings. This amount does not hurt them in any way shape or form. It is all a show. Our government needs to get tough on corporate greed.

Open your wallet. Does it have ANY money in it? That's more than a lot of billion dollar corporations pay in taxes. We need to wake up and realize that half of the reason our country is in the deficit we have is because corporations are grossly taking advantage of tax loopholes.

Its already disgusting that I pay half of the taxes as most everyone I know. And I will happily (and greedily) pay as little in to the system as possible until it is fixed. But it needs to be fixed. Across the board. Don't get mad at the state of Illinois. Get mad at the disgusting greed of Caterpillar.
Those darn companies that make money. Shame on them, a pox on their house!
Certainly glad you are not Govenor!
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:10 AM
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I agree Grassman.
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:23 AM
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I don't blame CAT if it chose to move. I don't think it likely as I do believe something will be worked out. However, Illinois's tax increase was monumentally stupid, especially considering we're just coming off of (hopefully) the bottom of a recession.

This, I believe, is not strictly a matter of CAT paying Illinois taxes as I believe a portion of their earnings is considered taxable within Illinois. Not sure myself of the split. However, who would want to come to Illinois and work at CAT with the crazy high taxes? That's a key problem.

To keep it BU relevant, if a BU student were presented options of equally paying jobs in Illinois (like CAT) and one out of state with significantly lower taxes, which would he/she choose?

I recently moved back to Illinois from Florida. And it's shocking how badly taxed Illinois is. It seems property tax is nearly twice as much as Florida (surprisingly) AND Florida has no state income tax.

As one of the posters mentioned, paying taxes is a civic duty. Sure. BUT if those tax revenues are badly mismanaged, what will raising taxes do but throw more money down the drain?

To keep on topic with BU, how bad those this tax hike affect a potential out-of-state coaching candidate's decision? High income and property tax? A $700K salary is not going to be equal everywhere.
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Old 03-27-2011, 03:03 PM
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Not to mention how it will affect charitable giving around the area. Whether it's an arts organization or local charity, CAT is usually a top donor, if not the top donor.
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Old 04-06-2011, 02:01 PM
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Empty threat:

http://chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2...s-for-now.html
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