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  #21  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:28 AM
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Buesch N Chips Buesch N Chips is offline
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I realize it's not a popular topic, but if the people aren't going to come, is it time to possibly consider moving to Renaissance? There are certainly issues to address there I would think, and we will see how attendance goes this year, but man.
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  #22  
Old 11-12-2017, 11:21 AM
Da Coach Da Coach is offline
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Originally Posted by Buesch N Chips View Post
I realize it's not a popular topic, but if the people aren't going to come, is it time to possibly consider moving to Renaissance? There are certainly issues to address there I would think, and we will see how attendance goes this year, but man.
You are right. This has always been an extremely unpopular idea. Now it might seem like an idea worth considering more, especially if the Renaissance Coliseum could be enlarged (a feasibility study done a few years ago by Joanne Glasser concluded it could be enlarged to seat about 6,500 with upper decks on both sides for a reasonable cost), and other improvements made to accommodate parking and larger crowds. And, it would not go over well unless they improved concessions and sold beer. But campus arenas do work well for most of the Valley schools. 8 other MVC schools play in on-campus arenas (as did Wichita State). The only other school that plays off campus in a city-owned arena is Evansville.
For the record, I am still against such a move, and I do not believe it would increase student attendance very much.
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  #23  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:22 PM
Chibearsfan10125 Chibearsfan10125 is offline
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Honestly, the only way to get people (and students) back is to win. If this team makes the NCAA Tournament or maybe even the NIT, or gets ranked in the top 25, people will come. Look when Bradley brought in Michigan a few years ago. The place was packed. People want to see good teams, and while I will support the team regardless, many others don’t have that kind of loyalty. I bet if this team does well this season, you’ll see an uptick in attendance next year.

Also, I think having this be a Saturday afternoon game hurt attendance. A lot people don’t have normal Monday-Friday jobs. I had to miss this game because of work. Had it been a night game, I’d have been there. I’m sure there’s others that also would’ve gone had it been a night game, but couldn’t make it during the afternoon, especially with 2 high school playoff football games going on locally that same afternoon.
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  #24  
Old 11-12-2017, 02:09 PM
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Winning is all we need.
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  #25  
Old 11-12-2017, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Chibearsfan10125 View Post
...
Also, I think having this be a Saturday afternoon game hurt attendance....
No doubt Saturday night games are the most desirable. But the Rivermen had a game that night, and the Civic Center seems to give them priority over those choice dates and times. Maybe it's because they have their schedule earlier and submit their requests before Bradley knows their schedule. That is a problem with a shared civic arena.
But there are a lot of people who like the Saturday afternoon games because they can bring their kids, or because they don't conflict with other Saturday night plans.
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  #26  
Old 11-12-2017, 05:48 PM
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I am not an advertising or marketing expert, and Bradley used to employ real marketing people, but I don't think they do that any more.
And I know they have tried lot's of gimmicks to get students to come to games (visiting dorms, holding rallys, free snacks and drinks, free tickets and rides, contests and prizes, tables at courtside so they can eat their free food and drinks, T-shirts, and much more), they need to try more things. They need to make it "cool" again for students to come to the games.

There has to be a way to get students interested in coming to games. Bradley pays a lot of money to advertise and promote the games to the public, so use some of that promotional money to reward students to attend! Give ever student who comes and stays for the whole game a $5 or $10 voucher at the Bookstore or for merchandise, or a free Avanti's Gondola or Jimmy Johns sandwich. Maybe they could get some company to sponsor the project, and give them free advertising or name the student section after them such as "the Avanti's Gondola section". Just a thought. There have to be other ideas that could work better than what they are doing now.

I went to the women's game Friday night. I did not see a single student there, despite the ticket being free, and it is right on campus! They could try the same thing there- offer students a free Avanti's Gondola or something that will attract them to the game.
Offer them nothing to come to the games. If they don't want to support their team, that's up to them.
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  #27  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:45 PM
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A few things to consider as it relates to attendance, and in defense of the athletic dept. marketing team:

-With the ESPN3 package, it's become very convenient to see all the games from anywhere (home, mobile, etc.). I watched yesterday's game via my ipad while out of town and the HD picture/broadcast was great. And it was free! I'd bet the streaming viewership numbers are pretty solid.

-Let's not fool ourselves, students haven't been coming to games consistently since the Molinari era (and select parts of the Les era). It's virtually non-existant now, but it wasn't great even in the Les era. For whatever reason, students just don't feel a connection with the athletic teams like they do at other schools.

-There are so many more things to divide our attention these days. I've tried to take my kids to games and there is literally no way to get them to watch a 2 hour game. If I do bring them, I'll actually see about 10 minutes of action and a bunch of face-painting, bouncy houses, ipads, etc.

-Greater Peoria has lost their connection with Bradley through the last decade of losing. The diehards are still strong but a new generation of fans hasn't developed the loyalty and passion to make attending games a priority. I know lots of "passive" fans, but few that would actually make attending a game a priority event.
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  #28  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:34 PM
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Winning helps... but be realistic.

Take a moment to think about the younger generation. These people are buried in their phones. They are buried in texting and scrolling apps. They are addicted to fast news and updating news and updating scores and apps, etc. They can't keep their attention to ONE thing longer than a couple minutes... to ANYTHING. And so to ask them to come to a game and watch and support a team for 2 hours???? Forget it!

I don't care what gimmick or marketing scam anyone dreams up. Attending sporting events is DYING! The young generation prefers a sterile attachment to sports. Be there only if trendy and take selfies and post on social media.
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  #29  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:42 PM
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Both of the last two posts were spot on. Does anybody remember the Pekin vs Manual regular season game that sold out the Civic Center when Matt Taphorn was a senior? I think it was 1984. This area was such a hotbed for local basketball.
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  #30  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:50 PM
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Default Still talking about students?

I am baffled the topic of getting BU students to basketball games is still a thing. It seems fairly obvious to me winning games improves attendance; students too. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I have not conducted a study and am wrong a lot. I attended my first game in 79' when I was 6 years old. I was one of those kids running around at the top rows of the field house. Pure observation, but whenever the Braves are good, attendance is good. When the Braves an not good, attendance is not good. Student attendance at games is something to talk about during a stretch when the team is not successful, but never a topic when the team is winning. Just win. Problem solved.
Go Braves.
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  #31  
Old 11-12-2017, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyTwo View Post
A few things to consider as it relates to attendance, and in defense of the athletic dept. marketing team:

-With the ESPN3 package, it's become very convenient to see all the games from anywhere (home, mobile, etc.). I watched yesterday's game via my ipad while out of town and the HD picture/broadcast was great. And it was free! I'd bet the streaming viewership numbers are pretty solid.

-Let's not fool ourselves, students haven't been coming to games consistently since the Molinari era (and select parts of the Les era). It's virtually non-existant now, but it wasn't great even in the Les era. For whatever reason, students just don't feel a connection with the athletic teams like they do at other schools.

-There are so many more things to divide our attention these days. I've tried to take my kids to games and there is literally no way to get them to watch a 2 hour game. If I do bring them, I'll actually see about 10 minutes of action and a bunch of face-painting, bouncy houses, ipads, etc.

-Greater Peoria has lost their connection with Bradley through the last decade of losing. The diehards are still strong but a new generation of fans hasn't developed the loyalty and passion to make attending games a priority. I know lots of "passive" fans, but few that would actually make attending a game a priority event.
don't doubt any of that except....

...until the admin started firing people in the Athletic Department (who went on to big success elsewhere, FGCU, UCD, etc..) in 2008-2011, then replacing them with folks who alienated the fans and donors and made such horrible decisions - Bradley consistently drew 9,000-10,000 and had multiple tremendous sellouts every single season.

a few have tried to re-invent history and lie about the facts - like Kirk Wessler - who claimed the attendance tanked in 2007 but actually began sliding in the Molinari era.

Here are the facts..
-the Molinari era had 9,000 to well over 10,000 every year - even in his 14-15 season in 2000 the home attendance was 10,178

-Les took over and did NOT drop much at all...staying over 9,000 and gradually building back up to over 9,700
We even had non-conference games against average opponents which still drew almost 11,000! (LINK) as well as multiple sellouts every year.

-Then Glasser fired Kavanagh and brought in Cross who alienated the fans rapidly - He turned people off and they dumped their season tickets in droves. The season ticket base dropped from over 7,000 to 4,000 overnight - thanks mainly to Cross & Glasser. Donations to the Athletic Dept. plummeted to the lowest level in decades.
In 2007-08 Bradley set an ALL TIME TOTAL ATTENDANCE RECORD!! -(LINK) (LINK) (so much for Wessler's claim that attendance dropped in 2007 and continued from there)

-attendance dropped 500 in the first year that Glasser started the firings and she sent Kavanagh packing, even tho Bradley still won 21 games.
Then in 2010 when they fired all of Les' assistant staff the attendance dropped another 700 - but was still 8,400 - nearly DOUBLE any team who is currently in the MVC!

-but the real tanking was about to begin - because in 2011 they canned Les and sent the message to the fans that they didn't care what fans thought and they didn't care how insulting they were to lifelong Braves fans & donors or to the players & legends who fans honored.

-The attendance then dropped nearly 1,000 each year until Joanne, Cross & Geno were fired....
So try as they might to hang the blame of Molinari, Kavanagh, Les, the fans, ...
they are wrong and the real cause was Joanne Glasser & Mike Cross and a few enablers.
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  #32  
Old 11-13-2017, 12:22 AM
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don't doubt any of that except....

...until the admin started firing people in the Athletic Department (who went on to big success elsewhere, FGCU, UCD, etc..) in 2008-2011, then replacing them with folks who alienated the fans and donors and made such horrible decisions - Bradley consistently drew 9,000-10,000 and had multiple tremendous sellouts every single season.

a few have tried to re-invent history and lie about the facts - like Kirk Wessler - who claimed the attendance tanked in 2007 but actually began sliding in the Molinari era.

Here are the facts..
-the Molinari era had 9,000 to well over 10,000 every year - even in his 14-15 season in 2000 the home attendance was 10,178

-Les took over and did NOT drop much at all...staying over 9,000 and gradually building back up to over 9,700
We even had non-conference games against average opponents which still drew almost 11,000! (LINK) as well as multiple sellouts every year.

-Then Glasser fired Kavanagh and brought in Cross who alienated the fans rapidly - He turned people off and they dumped their season tickets in droves. The season ticket base dropped from over 7,000 to 4,000 overnight - thanks mainly to Cross & Glasser. Donations to the Athletic Dept. plummeted to the lowest level in decades.
In 2007-08 Bradley set an ALL TIME TOTAL ATTENDANCE RECORD!! -(LINK) (LINK) (so much for Wessler's claim that attendance dropped in 2007 and continued from there)

-attendance dropped 500 in the first year that Glasser started the firings and she sent Kavanagh packing, even tho Bradley still won 21 games.
Then in 2010 when they fired all of Les' assistant staff the attendance dropped another 700 - but was still 8,400 - nearly DOUBLE any team who is currently in the MVC!

-but the real tanking was about to begin - because in 2011 they canned Les and sent the message to the fans that they didn't care what fans thought and they didn't care how insulting they were to lifelong Braves fans & donors or to the players & legends who fans honored.

-The attendance then dropped nearly 1,000 each year until Joanne, Cross & Geno were fired....
So try as they might to hang the blame of Molinari, Kavanagh, Les, the fans, ...
they are wrong and the real cause was Joanne Glasser & Mike Cross and a few enablers.

This is accurate. I was at BU from 06’-08’. Attendance was great after the sweet 16 and NIT run. I was at multiple sell outs more than once each season. Then attendance followed exactly as you detailed it above under the Cross and Glasses years.

I also think some of you guys are being a little harsh on the younger fans and students. If the team starts winning they will come. There are other private schools with good programs that get their students to the game regularly and it is because they are winners.
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  #33  
Old 11-13-2017, 08:14 AM
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As for the causes of the drops in attendance, don't forget the huge ticket price increase in 2013 after the average attendance had already dropped over 3,000 per game and after the administration had fired many popular and successful coaches, assistants, the AD, and others, and was driving the program into the ground.

That was highly unpopular to many long time season ticket holders who had remained loyal through the decline of the program, and lead to many more dropping their tickets.

Here are the actual official attendance numbers. People can judge for themselves when the major decline in attendance started-

Year/rank/Gms..total.....avg....change
2018 .........1..4,936..4,936
2017 #96 15 82,318 5,487 down 466 (all games at Carver)
2016 #91 15 89,299 5,953 up 227 (all games at Carver)
2015 #94 16 91,614 5,726 down 882 (Carver average 5827)
2014 #74 17 112,335 6,608 up 51 (Carver average 6,984)
2013 #79 18 118,024 6,557 down 1,083
2012 #68 16 122,245 7,640 down 807
2011 #56 16 135,148 8,447 down 892
2010 #52 15 140,079 9,339 up 229
2009 #55 18 163,981 9,110 down 490
2008 #52 19 183,392 9,600 down 128
2007 #53 17 165,376 9,728 up 508
2006 #54 14 129,086 9,220 down 117
2005 #51 15 140,065 9,337 up 159
2004 #52 15 137,667 9,178 down 173
2003 #47 14 130,907 9,351 up 279
2002 #47 13 117,935 9,072 down 50
2001 #51 15 136,683 9,112 down 1,066
2000 #41 14 142,495 10,178 up 646
1999 #44 15 142,980 9,532 down 237
1998 #41 13 127,001 9,769 up 144
1997 #41 14 134,755 9,625 down 47
1996 #44 13 125,733 9,672 up 151
1995 #47 14 133,288 9,521 up 707
1994 #46 16 140,700 8,794 up 1,523
1993 #67 13 94,523 7,271 up 278
1992 #78 13 90,904 6,993 down 391
1991 #70 13 95,995 7,384 down 357
1990 #65 13 100,632 7,741 down 1,177
1989 #51 13 115,939 8,918 down 1,098
1988 #36 16 160,263 10,016 up 1,307
1987 #41 14 121,922 8,709 down 199
1986 #37 14 124,712 8,908 up 1,366
1985 #60 15 113,124 7,542 up 350
1984 #62 15 107,881 7,192 down 1,821
1983 #38 16 144,209 9,013 up 1,730
1982 #56 17 123,810 7,283 down 33
1981 #55 14 102,430 7,316 up 63
1980 #59 16 116,050 7,253 up 503
1979 #64 14 94,500 6,750 down 113
1978 #56 16 109,800 6,863



And just to remind everyone, here is a link to an old page here where I posted the links to the Bradley website showing record revenue raised by Bradley athletics for multiple years in a row from 2006-2008. Unfortunately, those pages have been removed and no longer exist. But the athletic department was incredibly healthy under Kavanagh, Les, et. al., but personality issues lead to them getting fired, and in the subsequent several years, Bradley athletics lost tens of millions of dollars.
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showpost.p...62&postcount=6
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  #34  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:15 AM
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a tabulation of home attendance- regular season games - comparing the 6 seasons BEFORE Jim Les was fired vs. the SIX seasons since then

The 6 yrs before JL fired - 5 Sellouts, 28 crowds over 10K, 9 crowds over 11K but 0 crowds UNDER 7K
The 6 yrs after JL fired --- 0 Sellouts, 3 crowds over 10K, 1 crowd over 11K !, but 67 crowds UNDER 7K !!!


Bradley had ZERO home crowds under 5,000 from 1949 up until 2011. NEVER once in that 62 year span!!!
But now it has happened eight times since! it has almost become the new norm...
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  #35  
Old 11-13-2017, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tornado View Post
a tabulation of home attendance- regular season games - comparing the 6 seasons BEFORE Jim Les was fired vs. the SIX seasons since then

The 6 yrs before JL fired - 5 Sellouts, 28 crowds over 10K, 9 crowds over 11K but 0 crowds UNDER 7K
The 6 yrs after JL fired --- 0 Sellouts, 3 crowds over 10K, 1 crowd over 11K !, but 67 crowds UNDER 7K !!!


Bradley had ZERO home crowds under 5,000 from 1949 up until 2011. NEVER once in that 62 year span!!!
But now it has happened eight times since! it has almost become the new norm...
Da Coach & tornado - thank you for the information you guys provide, you are a wealth of very interesting data!
Obviously we would all like to get back to crowds like the six years before Jim Les got fired. I didn't start following Bradley until 2009 so I didn't experience the multiple games with over 10,000 crowds. Who were some of the teams we played that generated the largest crowds? What are your thoughts on changes that are needed to get us back to the crowds similar to the six year span before Jim Les got fired?
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  #36  
Old 11-13-2017, 03:19 PM
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...Who were some of the teams we played that generated the largest crowds? What are your thoughts on changes that are needed to get us back to the crowds similar to the six year span before Jim Les got fired?

Go to this link- The online version of the Bradley Basketball record book. There is a lot of information there, so I'd encourage all fans to bookmark this link and read everything when you have time to familiarize yourselves with Bradley's history.
http://www.bubraves.com/documents/20...ds.pdf?id=4407

Scroll to page 68- that is in the midst of the listing of the records and results for every year. But starting with the 1982-83 season on page 68, the first season in Carver Arena, it lists the attendance for each game. The home games are in bold type. It can be seen that almost every year between 1982-20011 we had multiple games every year with attendance in excess of 10,000. But it has only happened 3 times since Jim Les was fired in 2011 (ISU and Michigan in 2012, and then a 10,257 attendance game that was televised by ESPN against Wichita State on Feb. 25, 2014 when they were undefeated at 29-0, and ranked #2 in the country). It has not happened since then. In fact, the highest attendance since that game was 7,349 for the ISU game on Feb. 18, 2015.

On page 77 is the list of cumulative and average attendance figures for each season going back to 1955. It is obvious that the most significant decline happened after the changes made in 2011, primarily the firing of Jim Les. Revenues for the athletic department follow the same trend, except they peaked at all-time highs around 2009, which coincidentally was when Ken Kavanagh was sent packing.
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  #37  
Old 11-13-2017, 04:47 PM
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That's how to get the students to come to the games. Put them on ESPN so they can be seen.
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  #38  
Old 11-14-2017, 02:23 PM
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One last thought on the IUPUI game...
one of the refs was Mike Stuart...the ref who ejected one of our fans from the arena a couple years ago
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread...190#post294190

Well, that same fan, who has never hurt nor threatened anyone in his life - still sits in his same seats and as Stuart came on the floor, he wandered down that way and as soon as the fan greeted him, Stuart pre-emptively threatened to eject him again if he didn't keep his mouth shut - even before he ever said a word.
What a bozo - the guy is an egomaniac...
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  #39  
Old 11-14-2017, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
=What a bozo - the guy is an egomaniac...
I agree. This ref was the only one that blew his whistle for most of the game. It was obvious he was looking to T-up the coach when he was discussing a call with a different ref - even though this ref was on the other side of the court.
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