BradleyFans.com Forums

BradleyFans.com Forums (http://www.BradleyFans.com/vb/index.php)
-   General Sports discussions (http://www.BradleyFans.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   OT: Caterpillar threatening to leave Illinois! (http://www.BradleyFans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18290)

Bravesfan 03-26-2011 10:10 PM

OT: Caterpillar threatening to leave Illinois!
 
This is NOT good! The CEO of Caterpillar is threatening to move his company out of Illinois due to the $40 million the CEO says the new tax increase will cost his company.

Now we all know that if Caterpillar leaves, this will kill Peoria! I know that neighboring states supposedly have higher tax rates, but Quinn's tax increase will cause existing Illinois companies to scramble to cover costs that will greatly jump in short order.

So, Quinn's response to all of this? He doesn't believe Caterpillar will leave! Oh really?!

You know Governor, that type of condescension is what will eventually blow up in your face when Illinois starts losing big companies like this! I suggest you better listen REALLY carefully to what Caterpillar has to say because in spite of the money they make, $40 million dollars is an awful lot of money taken out of a company due to taxes that no one can account for in the first place! And I don't care what political party people align themselves with. You do NOT raise taxes during a recession, no exceptions!

If Quinn thinks that the state can live without Caterpillar, he should visit Peoria 20 years from now and see what a ghost town it would be! Try telling Peoria residents how easy it is to live without the auto industry like Detroit has been dealing with over the past decade or so!

Stryker 03-26-2011 10:18 PM

This is a great example of what is going to continue in america and across the globe in developed nations. Governments bought out by special interests and trying to win as many votes as possible have given entitlement programs to whoever they think will pay them and keep them in office. Now, when the revenue is simply not there to support these programs, the "progressives" and life long politicians believe they can tax their way out of it. Not so.

It is going to be very difficult, but the time for people to lose their attitudes of entitlement and realize that they have no right to receive a handout from the government. This is the greatest nation to ever exist because everyone has a chance to fulfill their dreams. But that does not mean you are entitled to achieving that dream. Or entitled to other peoples money. It will be a long and rude awakening for 30% of the american population.

Bravesfan 03-26-2011 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 225184)
This is a great example of what is going to continue in america and across the globe in developed nations. Governments bought out by special interests and trying to win as many votes as possible have given entitlement programs to whoever they think will pay them and keep them in office. Now, when the revenue is simply not there to support these programs, the "progressives" and life long politicians believe they can tax their way out of it. Not so.

It is going to be very difficult, but the time for people to lose their attitudes of entitlement and realize that they have no right to receive a handout from the government. This is the greatest nation to ever exist because everyone has a chance to fulfill their dreams. But that does not mean you are entitled to achieving that dream. Or entitled to other peoples money. It will be a long and rude awakening for 30% of the american population.

Yes it will! All great points!

sousaman2089 03-26-2011 10:29 PM

That would be horrible. My mom, my dad, my brother, my sister and her husband all work at CAT.

Plus, trying to get this to a somewhat Bradley topic, it would be very bad for Bradley because of the relationship the two have had.

It's also funny how they are threatening this AFTER they signed the new contract with the UAW.

theBUer 03-26-2011 10:29 PM

If I remember correctly, Navistar was going to relocate its HQ to states like Indiana because neighbors near a vacant office building in the western suburbs didn't want the noise of an engine testing site. Ultimately, the state gave the company a bunch of tax incentives, and they will move into that vacant office building.

I'm not blind to think that CAT is/could outsource certain functions elsewhere, maybe moving stuff to Nashville where their financial services unit is headquartered. But they would not leave Illinois. My point is that the state and CAT will reach a deal for some very favorable tax incentives, but then again the state does not have the money.

How many potential employees decide not to go with CAT because they don't want to be in Central Illinois?

Stryker 03-26-2011 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sousaman2089 (Post 225187)
That would be horrible. My mom, my dad, my brother, my sister and her husband all work at CAT.

Plus, trying to get this to a somewhat Bradley topic, it would be very bad for Bradley because of the relationship the two have had.

It's also funny how they are threatening this AFTER they signed the new contract with the UAW.

Does not really matter. They could easily locate to a right to work state like Texas and make up for it in a very short time period. In fact I have heard CAT employees sugest that CAT will not even be based in the US in 20-30 years.

Future Walk-On 03-27-2011 12:51 AM

Is the CEO still Jim Owens?

Bravesfan 03-27-2011 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sousaman2089 (Post 225187)
That would be horrible. My mom, my dad, my brother, my sister and her husband all work at CAT.

Plus, trying to get this to a somewhat Bradley topic, it would be very bad for Bradley because of the relationship the two have had.

It's also funny how they are threatening this AFTER they signed the new contract with the UAW.

Yup! That would be bad for the reputation of Bradley as wll due to their relationship. This is a no-win situation for all involved, but especially for our "esteemed" governor, who in my opinion really stepped into a deep pile here!

Bravesfan 03-27-2011 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theBUer (Post 225188)
If I remember correctly, Navistar was going to relocate its HQ to states like Indiana because neighbors near a vacant office building in the western suburbs didn't want the noise of an engine testing site. Ultimately, the state gave the company a bunch of tax incentives, and they will move into that vacant office building.

I'm not blind to think that CAT is/could outsource certain functions elsewhere, maybe moving stuff to Nashville where their financial services unit is headquartered. But they would not leave Illinois. My point is that the state and CAT will reach a deal for some very favorable tax incentives, but then again the state does not have the money.

How many potential employees decide not to go with CAT because they don't want to be in Central Illinois?

My points exactly! There is a reason why big corporations get tax incentives. Not because they are making money, but because a big income tax increase like Quinn put through will not only turn a big profit into a loss, but potentially put thousands of employees at risk of losing their jobs! This is not a bad thing if it saves the jobs of many hard working people, many of who have families to support as well.

And if you think big corporations like Caterpillar will have issues with this tax increase, what about most of the small mom and pop businesses that have very little room for error these days? This again is why the politicians cannot raise taxes during a recession! It's a no-win situation for everyone involved!

BuB 03-27-2011 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravesfan (Post 225182)
This is NOT good! The CEO of Caterpillar is threatening to move his company out of Illinois due to the $40 million the CEO says the new tax increase will cost his company.

Now we all know that if Caterpillar leaves, this will kill Peoria! I know that neighboring states supposedly have higher tax rates, but Quinn's tax increase will cause existing Illinois companies to scramble to cover costs that will greatly jump in short order.

So, Quinn's response to all of this? He doesn't believe Caterpillar will leave! Oh really?!

You know Governor, that type of condescension is what will eventually blow up in your face when Illinois starts losing big companies like this! I suggest you better listen REALLY carefully to what Caterpillar has to say because in spite of the money they make, $40 million dollars is an awful lot of money taken out of a company due to taxes that no one can account for in the first place! And I don't care what political party people align themselves with. You do NOT raise taxes during a recession, no exceptions!

If Quinn thinks that the state can live without Caterpillar, he should visit Peoria 20 years from now and see what a ghost town it would be! Try telling Peoria residents how easy it is to live without the auto industry like Detroit has been dealing with over the past decade or so!


I totally agree with this. If Cat leaves it will be bad for the state but a disaster for Peoria. Despite a large and growing medical community here in Peoria, this would be a terrible thing. You mentioned Detroit, well here is one report that says they have lost 25% of their population because of problems in the auto industry.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...95202-383.html

This the 2nd time a change of policy could cost Cat a boat load of money. I would love to see their projections on what Obamacare is going to cost them.

algotrader 03-27-2011 03:00 AM

Caterpillar has a market cap of 70 billion dollars. Paying taxes is part of your civic duty to better society as a whole. In fact, CAT is worth 25% more now than it was during the HEIGHT of the housing bubble. When super rich corporations/individuals complain about a tiny percentage of their income, it sickens me. Caterpillar made 42.6 BILLION dollars in 2010. They're complaining about 0.0009% of last years earnings. This amount does not hurt them in any way shape or form. It is all a show. Our government needs to get tough on corporate greed.

Open your wallet. Does it have ANY money in it? That's more than a lot of billion dollar corporations pay in taxes. We need to wake up and realize that half of the reason our country is in the deficit we have is because corporations are grossly taking advantage of tax loopholes.

Its already disgusting that I pay half of the taxes as most everyone I know. And I will happily (and greedily) pay as little in to the system as possible until it is fixed. But it needs to be fixed. Across the board. Don't get mad at the state of Illinois. Get mad at the disgusting greed of Caterpillar.

AE Braves Fan 03-27-2011 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by algotrader (Post 225218)
Caterpillar has a market cap of 70 billion dollars. Paying taxes is part of your civic duty to better society as a whole. In fact, CAT is worth 25% more now than it was during the HEIGHT of the housing bubble. When super rich corporations/individuals complain about a tiny percentage of their income, it sickens me. Caterpillar made 42.6 BILLION dollars in 2010. They're complaining about 0.0009% of last years earnings. This amount does not hurt them in any way shape or form. It is all a show. Our government needs to get tough on corporate greed.

Open your wallet. Does it have ANY money in it? That's more than a lot of billion dollar corporations pay in taxes. We need to wake up and realize that half of the reason our country is in the deficit we have is because corporations are grossly taking advantage of tax loopholes.

Its already disgusting that I pay half of the taxes as most everyone I know. And I will happily (and greedily) pay as little in to the system as possible until it is fixed. But it needs to be fixed. Across the board. Don't get mad at the state of Illinois. Get mad at the disgusting greed of Caterpillar.

If the government was run like a business (like CAT), we wouldn't be in the mess that we're in. Do you understand what it takes to be competitive in a global marketplace? Caterpillar's "greed" is what supports central Illinois. For how much longer?

Do you know what happens when you raise taxes on corporations? Since they can't just print money like the criminals running our government, they pass that tax right on to the customer. Komatsu loves Quinn.

And they're not complaining about 0.0009% of last year's earnings - the $40 million comes directly out of the EMPLOYEE paychecks.


Quote:

The Illinois tax increase will cost Caterpillar’s 23,000 employees in the state about $40 million this year, said Jim Dugan, the company’s chief spokesman. Higher taxes make it harder for Caterpillar to attract and retain engineers, accountants and other employees, Dugan said. He added that Caterpillar’s corporate taxes in the state also will increase but provided no estimate on the added cost.

Da Coach 03-27-2011 09:05 AM

And this isn't a threat that Pat Quinn should just blow off as an empty threat like he did yesterday-
Quinn: "Caterpillar's not leaving Illinois"
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=8036143

There have already been major businesses leave Illinois for more favorable business environments in other states, and companies like Caterpillar have already shifted major portions of their businesses to other states. Today, there are more than 20,000 fewer jobs in Peoria than there were at the time of the 1992 strike, and more than 40,000 fewer than at Cat's peak in the 1970's. Much of that decline is due to shifting jobs to other states, and outside the US. Caterpillar still employs a total of about 100,000 people, but half of them are outside the US. and the majority of it's US workers are now located in states other than Illinois due to more favorable business environments-
Caterpillar now has manufacturing facilities located in Clayton North Carolina, Sanford North Carolina, Greenville South Carolina, Corinth Mississippi, Dyersburg Tennessee, Griffin Georgia, LaGrange Texas, Seguin Texas, and North Little Rock Arkansas. You can thank the tax and pro-labor environment of the state of Illinois (plus the UAW) for that.

ManMythLegend 03-27-2011 09:33 AM

If you guys read the article. Doug Oberhelman specifically says "this is not a threat".

tornado 03-27-2011 10:03 AM

it actually isn't just a threat -- it is already happening..and not just with Caterpillar..

-Cat has slowly and gradually moved tens of thousands of jobs out of Illinois -- to Tennessee, further south, Puerto Rico, Phillipines..
You can hardly blame them when BOTH the Illinois state government and the labor unions target Cat as an enemy and are out to get them.
of course they are going to go where the atmosphere is friendlier and can be more profitable...can't blame them...
I am sure every reader would move out of state if your family depended on you and you couldn't find work here but could readily find work out of state.

-2nd -- does everyone remember this fiasco a few years ago??
Illinois drove numerous trucking firms out of Illinois by raising taxes on every rig...

Beninator 03-27-2011 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Future Walk-On (Post 225205)
Is the CEO still Jim Owens?

The current CEO is Doug Oberhelman.

Beninator 03-27-2011 10:24 AM

One thing that I find curious with the talk on here of tax incentives and companies moving overseas, is that last Fall, a bill was introduced in the Senate that would have used the tax code to punish corporations for moving jobs overseas, and provide TAX INCENTIVES for companies to bring back jobs to the US! You will see with my links below what party was mostly responsible for blocking this bill, but, IMO, this should be a bill that BOTH sides of the aisle work on together.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...96-503544.html

"Current tax law allows companies to benefit in a variety of ways when they move jobs overseas, including deducting the costs of closing American plants. The proposed bill would have raised taxes on companies that move manufacturing jobs out of the country and provide a tax incentive for companies that decide to bring them back."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=130194257

" On the Senate floor, Michigan Democrat Debbie Stabenow urged her colleagues to abolish the kinds of tax incentives that benefited refrigerator-maker Electrolux. They closed down a Michigan plant a few years ago then moved production to Mexico."

Grassman 03-27-2011 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by algotrader (Post 225218)
Caterpillar has a market cap of 70 billion dollars. Paying taxes is part of your civic duty to better society as a whole. In fact, CAT is worth 25% more now than it was during the HEIGHT of the housing bubble. When super rich corporations/individuals complain about a tiny percentage of their income, it sickens me. Caterpillar made 42.6 BILLION dollars in 2010. They're complaining about 0.0009% of last years earnings. This amount does not hurt them in any way shape or form. It is all a show. Our government needs to get tough on corporate greed.

Open your wallet. Does it have ANY money in it? That's more than a lot of billion dollar corporations pay in taxes. We need to wake up and realize that half of the reason our country is in the deficit we have is because corporations are grossly taking advantage of tax loopholes.

Its already disgusting that I pay half of the taxes as most everyone I know. And I will happily (and greedily) pay as little in to the system as possible until it is fixed. But it needs to be fixed. Across the board. Don't get mad at the state of Illinois. Get mad at the disgusting greed of Caterpillar.

Those darn companies that make money. Shame on them, a pox on their house!
Certainly glad you are not Govenor!

bu fan 9 03-27-2011 11:10 AM

I agree Grassman.

ser_solace 03-27-2011 11:23 AM

I don't blame CAT if it chose to move. I don't think it likely as I do believe something will be worked out. However, Illinois's tax increase was monumentally stupid, especially considering we're just coming off of (hopefully) the bottom of a recession.

This, I believe, is not strictly a matter of CAT paying Illinois taxes as I believe a portion of their earnings is considered taxable within Illinois. Not sure myself of the split. However, who would want to come to Illinois and work at CAT with the crazy high taxes? That's a key problem.

To keep it BU relevant, if a BU student were presented options of equally paying jobs in Illinois (like CAT) and one out of state with significantly lower taxes, which would he/she choose?

I recently moved back to Illinois from Florida. And it's shocking how badly taxed Illinois is. It seems property tax is nearly twice as much as Florida (surprisingly) AND Florida has no state income tax.

As one of the posters mentioned, paying taxes is a civic duty. Sure. BUT if those tax revenues are badly mismanaged, what will raising taxes do but throw more money down the drain?

To keep on topic with BU, how bad those this tax hike affect a potential out-of-state coaching candidate's decision? High income and property tax? A $700K salary is not going to be equal everywhere.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
BradleyFans.com is not affiliated with Bradley University